McCain was and remains on the wrong side of the unwinnable war against Iraq. He will and deserves to lose a race against any opposition and, most certainly, that of Barack Obama. McCain, typically, states a false dilemma --not unusual for the GOP, a party that has made its 'living' spreading lies, fallacies and propaganda. In the wake of Scott McClellan's scathing indictment of the Bush regime's sprint to war, some administration pundits argue that to continue to debate why and how our country went to war some five years ago is a distraction from the more crucial issues at hand. The details and minutia of the complex decision to invade Iraq is better left to the historians to untangle. Rather, we should concentrate our efforts and attention on how best to capitalize upon the more recent "successes" of the "new" military strategy in Iraq. Even were such optimism regarding the surge warranted, however, what these pundits fail to realize, is that military success and improved strategy does not of itself afford a moral and legal basis for continuing the occupation. Understanding how and why we invaded Iraq is relevant not only to ensure the accuracy of the historical record but, more importantly, to decide whether to continue the occupation in the hope or achieving a yet to be defined "victory," or in the words of John McCain, to "surrender," accept defeat and withdraw. --Whether to Achieve Victory in Iraq or "Surrender"The war is already lost and the GOP would not recognize victory if they saw it. They most certainly cannot define it. There is NO 'victory' to be had when wars are waged upon lies and deceptions. Will 'lies' suddenly become true? Not a war but a crime, Iraq, like Viet Nam, was characterized by the lack of battlefields or fronts. It will be forever associated with quagmire and a 'resistance' that simply refused to line up and be shot like little tin soldiers. Apparently --nothing was learned in Viet Nam. The endless repetition of failed strategies is typical of both idiocy and insanity.
This 'war' was lost before it was begun. Secondly, there is simply no yardstick or standard now or ever by which victory is determined or even recognized. Does victory consist of killing every Iraqi who disagrees with the naked aggression against his country? Does victory consist of brainwashing Iraqis into believing the same pack of lies that were, until recently, believed by brainwashed Americans? Does victory consist of Halliburton getting all the oil it wants, raising the price of oil to every American still dependent upon fossil fuel vehicles? Does victory consist of a 'peace' (read: occupation) that an American presence is required for 100, perhaps, as McCain has suggested, 10,000 years? I don't think so, McCain! If McCain should think so, then I suggest he get his ass to Iraq now. He has a very, very long education of some 10,000 years ahead of him. Victory in Iraq? Forget about it! There is not now nor will there ever be victory in Iraq short of a decree by God himself that what Bush did in Iraq was right! As long as anyone lives to denounce the crimes and genocide and murder perpetrated by one George W. Bush, that war is lost to the US and lost forever to history.
20 comments:
As unfortunate as the occupation of Iraq is, I think the issue Mr. Obama will have to consider IF elected is the likely invasion of Iran. The psychopaths who run the world seemed determined for the US to be embroiled in yet another disaster with Iran.
Notice I capitalized "IF elected", above because I don't believe this election will prove to be a cakewalk for Obama. I think the republicans and the MSM are sitting on the Toni Rezco scandal which may comeback to bite Obama in the ass before the general election.
Still, I agree with Ralph Nader who stated if the dems can't win a landslide over McCain in the general election, they better pack up everything and go home.
An 'election' will be a cakewalk for Obama. Actually getting into office is something else as the crooked GOP has proven time and again.
McCain will be lucky to get thirty percent of the popular vote. Sadly, that's not how Presidents are 'elected'. Worse --'elections' are NO LONGER how Presidents get into office.
Hey Len,
"McCain was and remains on the wrong side of the unwinnable war against Iraq."
I concur.
"The war is already lost and the GOP would not recognize victory if they saw it. They most certainly cannot define it."
"There is NO 'victory' to be had when wars are waged upon lies and deceptions. Will 'lies' suddenly become true? Not a war but a crime, Iraq, like Viet Nam, was characterized by the lack of battlefields or fronts. It will be forever associated with quagmire and a 'resistance' that simply refused to line up and be shot like little tin soldiers. Apparently --nothing was learned in Viet Nam. The endless repetition of failed strategies is typical of both idiocy and insanity."
I guess my question to McCain and his minions would be: How did you overlook the first Gulf War?
The UN and the US set specific objectives in that war. Once those objectives were met the war ended.
The US didn't topple Hussein because that wasn't one of the objectives.
Now you have McCain and his 33% talking about a war in Iraq lasting100 years.
McCain and his bunch are not effective managers.
Effective managers set specific
objectives to be accomplished in a certain amount of time.
That has definetaly not happened in Iraq.
McCain, if elected, would be the second worst US President in history, only behind Geworge W. Bush.
Troubled
Len,
Several excellent writes, have read most...just to busy and tired to respond, but reading most every word. I do believe McCain will do and say anything to secure the position, and like Bush, he also thinks it is his "due". At any rate, McCain has certainly gone over the deep end these past few years, or just finely shown his true colors (that is being your typical gasbag flip-flopping politician, nothing close to being what a "Maverick" is by definition...)
I know it will be a tough slog for Obama, and if and when he gets there, the depth of effectiveness of any of his progressive ideas will be under constant attack from day one (probably from all quarters)...but I am hopeful he helps initiate and engage the American people in a new way in bringing them back into the realm of governance (what a concept..."Of the people, by the people, For the people...") I guess it will be a Democrat to show these goppers what this statement means...and if Lincoln were alive today, I am certain if he had to choose between the two "parties" he would be a Democrat.
benmerc
Obama's not going to get us out of Iraq. He has stated clearly that he plans to leave 55-60,000 troops behind to guard our bases/embassy/the green zone, intervene if genocide begins between the factions, and attack any potential terrorist training camps. This quagmire WILL continue.
Troubled Texan said...
I guess my question to McCain and his minions would be: How did you overlook the first Gulf War?
That's an excellent point and we must be on the same wave length. Not only Viet Nam, but the first Gulf War must be re-examined. In retrospect, Bush Sr got away with declaring 'victory' because he pulled out before the facts could surface. Objectives were met but media, typically, never questioned or examined the 'objectives' themselves. By that time, media and public attention had been 'directed' elsewhere.
Nothing was learned. 'Victory' may have been the worst thing that could have happened.
Certainly, if the US had failed overtly in Persian Gulf I, it would not have been emboldened to try to pull a second rabbit out of the hat. Shrub failed because --being a simpleton --he thought all he had to do was puke up a lie for a pretext, order in the troops, sit back and wait for the glory. Even Nero was smarter.
Now you have McCain and his 33% talking about a war in Iraq lasting100 years.
And it is this 33% who cannot or will not learn from mistakes. It is this 33% which will repeat the same ol' shit and expect a different outcome. This 33% will indulge any lie if it makes them 'feel good about themselves'. Screw them and the horse they road in on! I am tired of a tiny group of loudmouthed, right wing screwballs, idiots, and psychos telling me what to believe, how to conduct my life and who to vote for. Fuck these idiots! And they know who they are.
McCain and his bunch are not effective managers.
Indeed! Worth repeating: Fuck these idiots!
McCain, if elected, would be the second worst US President in history, only behind George W. Bush.
In a sense, failure will be impossible for McCain as he will be compared to the dumbest, stupidest, sorry-assed dipshit to have ever occupied the White House. Who couldn't look good by comparison?????
benmerc said...
I know it will be a tough slog for Obama, and if and when he gets there, the depth of effectiveness of any of his progressive ideas will be under constant attack from day one
The Obama camp should take the offensive. Attack McCain's Bushy ideas at the outset, meaning RIGHT NOW! McCain IS Bush ---but even worse.
if Lincoln were alive today, I am certain if he had to choose between the two "parties" he would be a Democrat.
I will always be ambivalent about Lincoln, suspecting that he was, in fact, a closet bigot more concerned about 'union' than the plight of 'slaves'. The Emancipation Proclamation was the RIGHT thing but for the wrong reasons. It was a political move that seized the 'moral high ground' for the North and, indeed, rallied not only flaggin support up North but global support, primarily Great Britain. Lincoln also had a good mind as evidenced by his ability to write lucid, well-structured sentences.
This talent, this ability either acquired or inherited, is sadly lacking today. It has become fashionable to write as one 'speaks'. What we know of another person's mentality is found only in their words --written or spoken. Our language has become fuzzy, 'cute', imprecise, muddled, awkward, and --worse --because of the deliberate efforts of PR artists and propagandists, just plain misleading. It is not what it was and we are the worse off for it.
Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
Obama's not going to get us out of Iraq. He has stated clearly that he plans to leave 55-60,000 troops behind to guard our bases/embassy/the green zone,
I had hoped he was lying! If so, it will be the only time in history in which I will have voted for the candidate whom I believed 'lied'.
BTW --I wonder, Will Hart, if we are related. Among my ancestors are several named William. 'Hart' is a very old name. If I am not mistaken, it was first recorded in the Domesday Book somewhere in the north counties by William the Conqueror.
"I will always be ambivalent about Lincoln, suspecting that he was, in fact, a closet bigot more concerned about 'union' than the plight of 'slaves'" LH
I do not disagree, except for the "closet" part...I do not think in those times one really had to stay in a closet concerning that issue (I believe it is our historical retro-fitting of Lincoln's image that put him in that particular closet)...Not that he was out stumping on blatant racists rants, but he certainly did not hide the fact he thought Black people were not equal to whites, by the current standards of the day (apparently the significance of the actual experience and impacts of being a slave, in losing your culture, family and many times life never occurred to many of these people). The actual population of true progressives who really believed that Blacks were "equal" human beings was rare, and a very very minute group...In fact many of the "abolitionists" groups still thought Blacks were quit inferior, but their "Christian" values persuaded them to help the Black man up best they could, and certainly not molest and profit from the degradation of slavery, and don't forget...their economy was not dependent on slavery as the South's.
I also think if Lincoln's main drive during the civil unrest and war would have mostly, or solely been about freeing slaves, he would have lost the war...the draft riots in the north were getting pretty bad, your common man was not about to die just for slavery. Same with the Britts...even though they denounced "slavery" as immoral years before, they continued exploiting and colonizing mostly through intimidation and brute force the black and brown cultures for another 75+ years, all under the guise of "White man's burden" Not to mention all of this took place before "eugenics" had really developed yet into a main-stream pseudo-science that some people still believe.
Anyhow, the activist folk singer-song writer Billy Bragg has a song that now sums it up:
"It's all about the oil"
benmerc
benmerc sez...
he certainly did not hide the fact he thought Black people were not equal to whites
To give him the benefit of the doubt, I suppose Lincoln played his role as best one could given the times.
Not to mention all of this took place before "eugenics" had really developed yet into a main-stream pseudo-science that some people still believe.
Like 'Social Darwinism', 'Eugenics' may be founding lurking behind every justification for atrocities by one group upon another. Hitler's Holocaust is a notable example. The US theft of Native American land and their 're-settlement' is another. The big difference is Hitler's 'Holocaust' has been brought to an end. The US genocide against Native Americans continues.
The US genocide against Native Americans continues. - LH
ain't gonna argue that one, the sad legacy of America's treatment of the indigenous people persists today, I do not doubt. After reading "Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee" and a few other books with native perspective, the outline of that reality set in my mind, and I never held judgment against any radicalized action taken by those over the years since, which has to some degree at least allowed those activists and their ilk to retrieve some of their history, culture, dignity and hopefully some retribution, which will of course never be even partially retrieved, similar to the rip-off of several centuries of free labor supplied by African Americans.
I am hopeful that someone as Obama will make the first steps in ushering in a new era of justice to all working folks, the working poor on up. He will need to make every effort that ensures everyone has a fair shot at the resource and wealth that they have contributed to, in part by stopping the flow of money from the bottom upwards into piles divided by all of the special interests in industry, banking and all the other oligarchical type economic groups.
I may sound overly optimistic, but I do believe someone of his background and capabilities will be one of the hopes for this nation. He will also need the American people to get behind him in a way we have not witnessed since the CCC days and "New Deal" era, that will also be the hard part as Americans typically do not plan these type efforts, we seem to inherent the attitude through catastrophic war and depressions, which is not a real option this time around for so many reasons.
I would like to see a CCC effort in place with green industry on all levels being the target...get these rusty decadent, corrupt industries out of the way if they do not want to change with the tides, fuck em. Let them call up their "Pinkertons" & "Blackwaters" that bunch will not hold the fort against the populist movement that is possible in this country, when push comes to shove.
The real work will be implementing and starting programs with industry that help change what we produce and consume, and most importantly, how we produce and consume. Health care for everyone will not be feasible in the current mode of American economy, culture and behavior, it goes well beyond just making it "affordable" to everyone...it is about systemic change, and it must start sometime and in some ways very soon, concerning health care and many other issues. Just some rambling thoughts thinking out loud, hoping others are looking towards the future with similar considerations, it would be a nice change if we actually empowered a statesman/politician that could get this ball rolling, a large request...but nothing short of being the only option left, least we finish out our days as a dwindling, decadent corrupt empire leeching off the world until they have had enough...you are dead on in that prior post as to the direction we are snow-balling.
benmerc
"Victory" is indeed impossible in Iraq.
However, if the Right-Wing is expert at anything, it's revising history.
I mean, these are the people who took that senile moron and war criminal Ronald Reagan and somehow managed to transform him into the "The Man Who Won the Cold War." You and I know that's bullsh*t---but a shockingly high number of Americans still believe this is true.
No doubt, the Right-Wing will work hard to restore Bush's legacy and they'll work to revise history and make sure Bush gets credit for "victory" in the Iraq War.
If this sounds like an impossible task, then you are simply underestimating the ferocious determination of these people.
These people are known for getting what they want, through just relentless sheer brute force. (Just as they did in the 2000 election).
In the coming years, they'll continue to relentlessly pound away at the idea that the Iraq War was a "victory" for Bush. Already, day after day, HateWing radio is hammering away the idea that Iraq is a victory for Bush.
They'll shout down anyone who disagrees. They'll write letters to the editor. They'll harass serious historians. They'll bully journalists. They'll spend countless hours re-writing articles on Wikipedia. They'll make anonymous threats against those who disparage their hero.
And they will succeed. In our juvenile culture, often the "truth" belongs to those who can simply shout the loudest.
"These people are known for getting what they want, through just relentless sheer brute force. (Just as they did in the 2000 election)." -MM
True, but they will not have the demographic hubris they had built up by 2000...and if we get opposition leadership that is capable of sustainable progressive change, these jerks will go back to being the wing-nut under some rock minority they have always been. But, as you say they are and probably will be very dangerous for some time, and certainly are capable of doing anything in order to acquire their ideological and economic ends.
benmerc
Rearlly terrific comments, benmerc and marc. I want to respond adequately but have been pressed for time for several days now. Hopefully will catch up tomorrow. There is much food for thought here. Both of you honor this blog.
Well, the GOP attack on Obama using the Rezco scandal has started: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_duAgLWSVY
If victory were possible in Iraq, the McCain crowd would come up with a policy to abort it.
I have to disagree: the problem isn't these people are bad managers. Management has nothing to do with their policies.
The intent of the Iraqi War, like the War on Terra, is to create conditions where many major corporate entities have access to an endless flow of cash from the United States government.
Winning the war on Terra- or on Iraq- has never been, and will never be, the main objective.
kelly_b...
Nazis were good managers but people OUGHT NOT be successful in evil. They ought to be opposed and MADE to fail. If Bush and the those who prosecute this 'war' are failing, they OUGHT to fail. The idea that all would be well if Bush had succeeded is a PERNICIOUS idea but entirely too common. It is an evil idea resulting from a scrambled thought process. The last thing the world needs is a super-competent "evil doer".
Len--
I rarely comment on your articles . . . your eloquence needs no compliments. But just to check in, please keep writing and I'll keep reading.
--Melody
McCain will be lucky to get thirty percent of the popular vote. Sadly, that's not how Presidents are 'elected'. Worse --'elections' are NO LONGER how Presidents get into office.I've been saying those very same things to people lately, and they act like I've lost my marbles. McCain is shadow government and a shoe-in, and God pity humanity.
Breaking Monday night: Dennis Kucinich introduces articles of impeachment against Bush.
Think Progress has video.
I thought they'd never go after Nixon. Once it started, it was a beautiful thing. Kucinich has 'em by the short hairs now.
Anonymous said...
But just to check in, please keep writing and I'll keep reading.
Thank you for your very kind comments and support. They are very much appreciated.
«—U®Anu§—» said...
Breaking Monday night: Dennis Kucinich introduces articles of impeachment against Bush.
Thanks for the link and the news. If Kucinich could not be President, he should be 'Knighted'. It's a start. Now --we should organize to bombard the Congress with support for impeachment. It's never too late. I would support impeachment if it occurred on Bush's last day in office. Secondly, impeachment might make the point that he is NOT to stay ---no matter what 'emergency' the GOP is prepared to manufacture.
Has Obama Moved to the Right?
Thought you'd like that. They don't deserve pensions and a dozen years of Secret Service protection. Public servants are supposed to be firewalls against the kind of tyranny Bush and Cheney have foisted, not the Unholy, Drunken Welcome Wagon. Congress has everything it needs. In the last few weeks, I've learned the shadow government extends further than I ever suspected, which is the real reason it all goes unchecked. Transparency is the antidote.
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