Monday, August 18, 2008

How Bush's 'Official Conspiracy Theory of 911" Covers Up the Crimes of Mass Murder and High Treason

To Bush administration chagrin and despite its best efforts to cover up the crime of 911, various independent investigations and courageous web warriors continue to expose Bush's lies about 911.

A culprit, a fiendish cabal inside our own government, may yet be exposed to be mass murderers as well as war criminals, traitors, subversives, mass murderers and torturers. Bush's 'official conspiracy theory' is full of holes. It's a cover story!
If the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated or at least deliberately allowed by the Bush- Cheney administration and the Pentagon, then the motivation to cover up this murderous and treasonous act would be unlimited. No expenditure of time and money would be considered too great."
--Professor David Ray Griffin [4]The True Story of 9/11: Part IV
Thus --Professor Griffen addresses the compelling motivation behind the Bush administration's cover up, cover story, a scripted program of lies, felony obstruction of justice, and mass deception with regard to 911.
    1. The 'official theory' that three airliners caused fires hot enough to bring down the Twin Towers of the WTC and damaged the Pentagon is a bald-faced lie. It can be demonstrated right now that the Bush crime syndicate had the three ingredients that must be proven in an indictment accusing them of mass murder and high treason: method, motive and opportunity! The Bush gang had all three. Due to the heavily reinforced steel construction of the WTC --including Building 7 --it is clear: airplanes and fires did not cause the towers to crash! 'Officialdom' denied the very presence of a core. The very first 'official conspiracy' was a documentary rolled out on PBS within weeks of the 911 attacks. It showed an animation in which there was absolutely no core whatsoever.
      The 911 Commission claimed that "the [WTC] core was hollow. Look at the construction photo to the right! Does that look hollow to you? Bluntly: the 911 Commission report is a bald-face lie. The core is fully visible as the construction photo above shows, as the video, likewise, proves conclusively! The official conspiracy theories would have us believe that soft-bodied aluminum airliners penetrated 9 feet of concrete and 4 rows of 4-ft-square steel girders. We are expected to believe that soft-bodied aluminum airliners penetrated the steel outside girders and the two rounds of 47.4 ft wide steel that made up the inside core!What the 911 Commission Report would have you believe could not have happened and didn't happen! The 911 Commission expects us to believe that the 'core' didn't even exist. The 911 Commission lied to you! The problem with 'pancaking' --the first 'official theory' to bite the dust --was that it was based upon the lie that 'the core was hollow'. Watch the following video, paying attention to the dense steel construction. I dare say, a 757 might have bounced off or gotten chewed to bits, shredded on its way 'in'. In any case, the damage to the building would have been slight! It would not have eventually brought about the collapse of any building in the WTC. The building would have survived relatively unscathed and, as we in fact have seen on countless videos, the fires --never hot enough to have melted steel --cooled considerably and within seconds the fires were spent, black smoke bellowing from 'content'. Unlike a 'controlled demolition', the dinky, spent fires would never have brought the towers to the ground.
    2. It didn't happen! In some 10,000 pages in 43 volumes, the NIST completely missed the point! In some 10,000 pages in 43 volumes, the NIST called 'irrelevant' the existence of 'molten steel' at WTC. By so doing, the NIST is left with no credible explanation for the fall of the towers! And the NIST thinks you are stupid!!! Fact is, until 911, no steel reinforced building had ever collapsed from fire. And never will! That kerosene fires have never and will never melt steel to collapse is an inconvenient fact that the Bush official conspiracy theorist would prefer you just forget about! Unless steel melted, the Twin Towers of the WTC remain standing. NIST doesn't even address the only cause that would have brought them down.In fact, The blueprints, unlike those of any other publicly funded building, have been withheld from public view since the 9/11 attacks without explanation and were even unavailable for viewing by the team of engineers from the American Society of Civil Engineers, who were assembled to investigate the collapses by FEMA, until they had signed legal documents which bound them to secrecy and demanded that they never use the information against the buildings' owners as part of a lawsuit. 911reseach.wtc7.net , which has been investigating 9/11 for years exposed the fatal holes in the NIST 'fairy tale'.
      The detailed architectural drawings make clear what official reports have apparently attempted to hide: that the Twin Towers had massive core columns, and those columns ran most of the height of each Tower before transitioning to columns with smaller cross-sections.

      Both of the government-sponsored engineering studies of the Twin Towers' "collapses" -- FEMA's and NIST's -- are highly misleading about the core structures. Neither Report discloses dimensions for core columns -- dimensions that are clearly evident in the architectural drawings. Both Reports use a variety of techniques seemingly designed to minimize the strength of the cores or to conceal their structural role entirely.
      FEMA, in its explanation of the collapses, stated:
      As the floors collapsed, this left tall freestanding portions of the exterior wall and possibly central core columns. As the unsupported height of these freestanding exterior wall elements increased, they buckled at the bolted column splice connections, and also collapsed.
      --911reseach.wtc7.net
      The NIST report defies the laws of physics and the 911 Commission report is disowned by its own co-chairs!

      The much maligned 911 truth movement has won this debate!

      Bush partisans are left with teeth-gnashing, name-calling, propaganda and bald-faced lies. They don't have shit!
    3. The NIST didn't 'prove' anything. The report cited a meaningless 'computer model' but --significantly --refused to release the 'model' or verifiable data conforming to the 'real world', in other worlds, the world of verifiable science. They know it's pure crap and that's why they won't release it. They wish to avoid further embarrassment and humiliation.
      Counter-intuitively, the NIST cites "widely-dislodged fireproofing" as a primary cause for collapse! My challenge to NIST: please cite a single instance in which a steel framed building of any size collapsed due to 'fireproofing' failure. In any case, I don't believe the fire-proofing failed. Rather --the fire-proofing succeeded. The fires were in fact spent when the towers collapsed due to some other cause, like, say, controlled demolition.In fact, some of the experts cited by the NIST refute the NIST's own conclusions:
      Thomas Eagar, an MIT professor of materials engineering who supports the official theory, says that the impact of the airplanes would not have been significant, because “the number of columns lost on the initial impact was not large and the loads were shifted to remaining columns in this highly redundant structure”

      NIST, Eagar and Musso, 2001, pp. 8-11 .
      Professor Astaneh-Asl of University of California summed it up: 'The impact [of the plane] did nothing to this building.’ [Original source:CNN News, Oct 5, 2001']. Simply --if the steel columns did not melt, then there was no collapse. If there was no collapse as a result of fire or crash damage, then the collapse of the Twin Towers was a controlled demolition, pure and simple. 'Fireproofing' is a red herring dependent upon the failure of the American school system to teach elementary science. It is on this point that we find evidence of deliberate omissions, if not outright lies, on the part of the NIST.
      Mister Sunder might soon find himself in even greater trouble, to be precise, amidst a revision of NIST`s report explaining the collapse of the Twins. Reasons for reconsideration of this report were given by an anonymous person this year, sharing a part of the original WTC complex blueprints with the public. These blueprints reveal that NIST`s report has covered up, hidden and/or altered information linked with construction features of the collapsed buildings in order to make their theory even more probable.

      “Popular Mechanics” stands apart from sources that are often quoted in favor of the “official conspiracy”, which a part of the American public refers to, in spite of an obvious fact that this is a well field that shows not so probable working hypothesis as irrefutable and acknowledged scientific evidence/facts. Wikipedia does the exact same thing (to be precise, a tiny group of zealous Wiki authors), taking for granted the debris and fire hypothesis, regardless of the fact text authors argue about it, and they have been harshly arguing for years now.

      Controlled implosion

      In 2006, on Dutch TV, a show was screened in which an explosives expert Danny Jowenko confirms what everyone who saw the building number 7 implosion saw with their own eyes. Without knowing that it is a skyscraper that collapsed on September 11, Jowenko was asked to give his expert opinion. You can see his honest assessment here.
      We have come to an irrefutable fact; WTC 7 was overthrown by a controlled implosion. The building disappeared in a free fall, in only 6.5 seconds. It is extremely easy to find details linked with this “most probable of hypotheses” online. The only problem is that an honest answer opens a whole lot of new, equally honest, very serious and extremely worrying questions that deserve a new and truly independent inquest of events that occurred on September 11, an inquest that will reveal the actual perpetrators of the greatest crime of modern history.

      --Javno World, WTC 7 Defying the Laws of Physics
    4. There is not a shred of evidence to support Bush's official conspiracy theory of 911.
    5. As FBI Director Robert Mueller had said, there is no evidence to connect the 'said' 19 'hijackers' with the events of 911. Indeed, many of the 'hijackers' were interviewed by the BBC after they were said to have died in the attacks.

      Those who assert must prove. Bush asserted a theory in which the 19 hijackers crashed US buildings all died. Show me the bodies! Show me a valid and verifiable autopsy report. There are, in fact, NO arab names on the 'official' autopsy report. While there is no verifiable evidence to support the absurd Bush version of this capital crime of mass murder, there is, however, probable cause to indict George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Condoleeza Rice for the crimes of mass murder and treason. Let Cheney give his side of the story --under oath --to a federal grand jury!
    6. Bush Lied to the American People about the motives of alleged 9/11 Terrorists' Bush has never told the truth about 911. It is to be expected that Bush/Cheney designs on middle east oil are opposed. It is middle eastern oil; it is not the property of the US. It's their oil, their resources, their nation --not ours! When Bush expects you to believe bullshit like "...they jest hate ire freedoms!" he insults your intelligence. Are you willing to be fooled by a dumb fuck who has trouble walking while chewing gum?

      If, indeed, 'terrorists' hated us for our Democratic institutions, they have won! Thanks to Bush, free elections free of fraud, habeas corpus, the Bill of Rights, due process of law guaranteed us in the Constitution are no longer operative, rescinded by Bush with fraud, decrees and/or unconstitutional signing statements. Bush has accomplished what no 'terrorist' could have ever done. He has destroyed 'our freedoms' which Bush says the terrorists 'hated'!
    Bush's opposition to the creation of the 911 Commission, his orders to destroy evidence at the Pentagon and at 'ground zero', his interference with the 911 Commission, his ongoing cover up are not the actions of an innocent man. Had Bush wanted the truth out, he would have supported a complete, fair, and impartial investigation. There are no hijacker names on the pathologists report released in response to an FOIA request. There is, therefore, no evidence that Hanjour's remains were autopsied, no evidence that his remains were recovered or buried in Arlington National Cemetary. More to the point, there is absolutely no evidence that Hani Hanjour was at any time on any flight connected with 911. The Washington Post even reported that Hanjour was not on Flight 77 because he did not have a ticket. It's hard to imagine skinny Hanjour forcing his way on board and having done so, taking over the controls with force and a boxcutter!
A 757 airliner is a civilian craft, not a nuclear powered craft. It does not carry a nuclear war head or hardened nose cone. Had a 757 crashed the Pentagon there would have been no need to order decontamination procedures. No such procedures were carried out in New York, but were carried out at the Pentagon. Clearly, 'officials' knew at the time that a civilian airliner had not crashed the Pentagon. The only scenario that fully explains the necessity of decontamination procedures is that of a military craft crashing into the Pentagon. It is my belief that that is what happened in fact. Don't try to tell me that such procedures are just routine. They were not routine in New York and were not carried out!

A set of related facts are explained by 'theories' which must, of necessity, explain every relevant fact. Theories inconsistent with proven facts must be discarded as false. Bush's theory explains nothing and is inconsistent with established science. By contrast, a technology called 'Global Hawk may very well explain the seemingly inexplicable events of 911 and, at the same time, point an accusing finger.
The Global Hawk is operated by remote control. The US, in fact, outfitted an aircraft with Global Hawk technology and flew it without a pilot from California to Australia by remote control. No Arab hijackers were required! The Global Hawk, moreover, would have had no problems with the maneuver credited to Hanjour but which experienced pilots say is impossible in a 757.
It's not enough that the Bush administration actively covered up evidence even as it sought to quash every investigation of 911, Bush and Condoleeza Rice would lie about the event after the fact, specifically, both Bush and Condo stated that the crashing of airliners into buildings could not have been foreseen, were not foreseen. [Bush: No evidence that US could avoid 9/11] Bush lied! And so did Condo Rice:
Today's Sydney Morning Herald prints an extract from Shenon's book which provides further details about Rice's incompetence. "Emails from the National Security Council's counter-terrorism director, Richard Clarke, showed that he had bombarded Rice with messages about terrorist threats" before 9/11, Shenon writes.
In fact, just such a 'scenario' was the basis for security when Bush attended the G8 Summit in Italy, July 23, 2001 [See: "Italy: Bush Targeted at G8." New York Newsday 19 Sept 2001, unsigned; "Extremists 'Planned Genoa Attack on Bush'", BBC News, 27 Sept 2001]. Secondly, Dick Cheney supervised precisely that scenario on the very day that it happened in fact --a highly improbable coincidence' that would repeat later in Britain on 7/7. Cheney supervised what are called 'exercises' within a bunker --the Presidential Emergency Operations Center --located under the White House. There is damning testimony against Cheney from former Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta who contradicts 9/11 Commission Report's Account of Dick Cheney's timetable.

The Probable Cause to Charge Dick Cheney With Mass Murder, Terrorism, and High Treason

That's not all. Cheney had already been put in charge of a 'domestic terrorism study group' [See: 911 Coincidences], a clever cover from which to commit high treason and mass murder.

Since those events, the Bush administration has worked overtly, assiduously to quash and interfere with every effort to investigate fully the events of 911.
# Scot J. Paltrow, "Government Accounts of 9/11 Reveal Gaps, Inconsistencies. Questions Arise About Who Put Nation on High Alert; A Threat to Air Force One? Panel Assembles Timeline," --Wall Street Journal, March 22, 2004.

Condoleezza Rice, "9/11: For The Record," Washington Times, March 22, 2004: "Despite what some have suggested, we received no intelligence that terrorists were preparing to attack the homeland using airplanes as missiles, though some analysts speculated that terrorists might hijack airplanes to try to free US-held terrorists." Also see "Promoting Icon Condi" in the August 4, 2003, Daily Howler.

--National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States - SourceWatch
Rice's statements were bald faced lies and only the guilty try to cover up their crimes.
If the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated or at least deliberately allowed by the Bush- Cheney administration and the Pentagon, then the motivation to cover up this murderous and treasonous act would be unlimited. No expenditure of time and money would be considered too great."
--Professor David Ray Griffin [4], The True Story of 9/11: Part IV
Our 'government' thus declared war on the people of the United States and wages it! As Che would have put it: the peace is already considered to be broken. Thomas Jefferson would have already declared 'our' independence of a cabal that has, in effect, already destroyed the 'legitimate' government of the United States.
Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

--Article III, US Constitution
The word treason covers the more egregious acts of betrayal or disloyalty to a sovereign or nation. Under the US Constitution and, in Britain by common law, sovereignty resides with the people themselves. What had been called the "United States" no longer exists. It was, in fact, overthrown in Bush's coup d'etat, and since that time systematically subverted and dismantled by Bush and his gang of treasonous usurpers. Accomplices who must certainly stand trial with Bush and Cheney will include Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleeza Rice, and various Pentagon brass.

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

Fuzzflash sez...

Len, Congrats on the KickAss blog recognition AND your systematic debunking of BushCo's bogus 911 Theory.

Some time back I thought: "How could all the alleged skullduggery leading to 911 have been kept quiet before and covered up afterwards? To orchestrate a group of crimes as well co-ordinated as 911 would require the co-operation of literally hundreds of government employees and many government agencies as well as outside professionals. Yet not one person who has been privvy to 911 malfeasance aforethought has come forward to spill his/her guts, to unburden themselves and seek redemption with the “Confession of the Century”.

Maybe "insiders" are afraid for the health and safety of themselves or their families.
Outfits like the cosa nostra make it clear that those it intimidates will have their families wasted if they break omerta. Could be the same dynamic at play here but in seven years not one ego-maniac or one person suffering Relevance Deprivation Syndrome and yearning for their fifteen minutes of fame on Jerry Springer or suchlike have ever come forward. Not even a death-bed confession or a suicide speech to camera for You-Tube. Zippo.

Having voiced this reservation, I agree that the case that you, damien and other good people of intelligence and integrity have assembled is overwhelming. The more authorities sandbag for a full and free enquiry with full subpoena powers into the events of 9/11, the more likely it is that what you document is true.

If Obama is elected, BushCo and Allied lose control and thereby their power. Dems would control the Senate, the House and the White House. An open enquiry would be difficult to deny a nation who are slowly tumbling to the possibility that they have been played for fools again. Maybe Americans need to be brought to the realization that they can’t handle the truth…….. slowly.

Obama will have to be dispatched using the dodgy “voting computers” made by GOPper donors Diebold/Sequoia et al. to steal another election, or if that becomes problematical on account of Obi’s surge of widespread grass/net-roots support, ie they can’t guarantee the fix will work, then Obama will be made an offer he can't refuse a la J/RFK, MLK, MalX etc.
If BushCo knew about and actively covered up 9/11, then whacking an opponent or stealing an election is merely an operational matter.

Like a boil ballooning with suppurating pus or a Vulcanite caldera about to shoot its lava wad, back-pressure is building and events are rapidly coming to a head.

Unknown said...

Fuzzflash sez...

To orchestrate a group of crimes as well co-ordinated as 911 would require the co-operation of literally hundreds of government employees and many government agencies as well as outside professionals.

That used to bother me until I realized that the nature of every organization. Most --even those who actively participated --never got the 'whole picture'. Norman Mineta's testimony with regard to Dick Cheney's 'orders' is instructive. Clearly --Mineta didn't understand at the time what was really going on. Hundreds more were merely doing limited 'assignments' with no real understanding of what others were doing nor how all the individual tasks would fit into the greater whole.


Yet not one person who has been privvy to 911 malfeasance aforethought has come forward to spill his/her guts, to unburden themselves and seek redemption with the “Confession of the Century”.

There are few such people though hundreds know separate bits and pieces. In my 'philosophical' youth, I once wrote that the universe was an organize whole and that 'that which is known anywhere is known everywhere'! If that is truth of the universe, it is certainly not true of fascist organizations which have proven themselves capable of heinous crimes though very few will ever know or understand the evil significance of their own job.

I agree that the case that you, damien and other good people of intelligence and integrity have assembled is overwhelming.

Thanks, Fuzz, but I am still unhappy with my 'summaries'. I have tried to zero in on key fatal flaws, anyone of which is enough to discredit the official theory. David Griffen should be given an award; he showed us the way. Certainly --the MELTING POINT of steel alone shoots down about 75 percent of the official theory. I won't even debate the 'melting point' of steel with idiots. It's not a matter that is subject to 'debate'. It's a matter of experiment and fact!

This article has been all but ignored by the biggies and that, of course, is no one's fault but mine. I might have made the point that the official theory is, likewise, dependent upon the various myths about WTC construction. Namey --that the core was hollow! The photos here and, more recently, the video proves beyond any doubt that an airplane could NOT have made a dent in that core. I have concluded that the the 'said' airliners did not even penetrate the steel 'cladding'. Something else happened that day and whatever it was, it is NOT what the mass murderers who pulled it off say.

The more authorities sandbag for a full and free enquiry with full subpoena powers into the events of 9/11, the more likely it is that what you document is true.

There is, in fact, a federal grand jury in White Plains, New York that is investigating the crime of 911. I am concerned about it. While the work of a Federal Grand Jury is done in secret, there are always leaks and there are always 'witnessess' who will spill their guts about what they told the pane. I haven't heard a peep outta this group in almost two years. I 'dunno' what's up!

If Obama is elected, BushCo and Allied lose control and thereby their power.

Having committed capital crimes, mass murder, high treason, aggressive war and other crimes punishable by death, I just don't see the gang walking peacably out the front door with a smile and a handshake. Hang on to your ass! The worst may be yet to come.

Like a boil ballooning with suppurating pus or a Vulcanite caldera about to shoot its lava wad, back-pressure is building and events are rapidly coming to a head.

Well, Fuzz, I've tried to lance the boil with the meager weapons at my disposal, those being a smart-assed attitude, a computer, and a vocabulary that, while decent, pales beside yours, my friend.

Over all, though, I cannot complain. I had no expectations for this blog when it was begun ---just a place to post a philosophical reflection or a political 'critique' from time to time. The blog has exceeded my expectations and I just have to live with the fact that nothing I do --by itself --will bring down this criminal cabal or bring Bush to justice.

Having said that, I will chide the American people: if they had half the guts of someone like Martin Luther King, Jr or Stokely Carmichael, or Nelson Mandela, or Ghandi, or Leonard Peltier ---this administration would have already been preparing its defense from inside a jail cell by now.

Now --I hear --that some judge somewhere has upheld Bushco's assertion that they cannot be prosecuted for their crimes!!!! I don't have to wade through THAT decision to call it utter bullshit!

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't be too concerned about the effectiveness of your efforts, Len. You're doing just great. And there are a lot of good people hacking away at the neocon lies. What's more, some of it is getting through. I've noticed that 911 articles are more easily accepted at various generalist websites. Also, mainstream media -- at least outside the US -- is moving quicker to dismiss the lies. I've been following the letters columns here in Oz on the Georgian invasion of Ossetia and it is pleasing to see they are publishing many letter writers who have quickly debunked the "Russia as aggressor" theme. I think some of these mainstream editors are waking up that listening to Bush is an exercise in self deception. They're starting to open their eyes and times are changing I believe. Slowly, perhaps....

If Obama is elected, BushCo and Allied lose control and thereby their power. -- Hi Fuzz! Joseph Cannon has been following all things Obama very closely and his study of the polls sees McCain winning office. I think he's right. Obama has pissed off the Clinton supporters in the party and there are plenty of Iran, Russia conflict buttons that can be pushed to see McCain advance. I don't think Obama can win. On the off chance that he does win it is worth noting that his chief economic advisers are Libertarians from the CATO Institute and his foreign policy advisers are Right wingers. Not much would change with Obama. Anyway, cheers.

Unknown said...

damien said...

I don't think Obama can win. On the off chance that he does win it is worth noting that his chief economic advisers are Libertarians from the CATO Institute and his foreign policy advisers are Right wingers.

The race that has shaped up won't even address the issues. I think it's fashionable and/or appropriate at this point to make the obligatory if trite analogy with deck chairs and the Titanic.

timking said...

Len, congrats on the award and thanks for the article. As was said above, don't let the lack of apparent progress get you down. If it wasn't for guys and gals like yourself, people like me may have never pulled our heads out of the sand in the first place.

I agree too that the problem with real witnesses to the whole picture is the 'modularization' of the whole process. For example, if you're going to build a secret base and you don't want anyone to know the whole layout, you'd use many different construction crews to do the job, only having each crew work on a small part of the base.

And the guys who do know the whole story behind 911, well they have the most incentive to stick to their guns, even if the guns have blanks.

Unknown said...

timking said...

And the guys who do know the whole story behind 911, well they have the most incentive to stick to their guns, even if the guns have blanks.


I suppose I am thinking forward a bit, impatient with campaigns that don't even make an effort to address real issues and equally impatient with a public that lets them get away with it. I really don't give a shit how much money either candidate has raised when 'buying' an office with lobby money is at least ninety percent of the problem. The 'elections' hold out no promise of justice. Mass murderers will simply retire to Paraguay with their booty if they should decide to leave at all. Meanwhile, the military/industrial complex will continue to bully the world for wall and k streets.

Anonymous said...

From a story on FOX

Today in History - Dec. 19 Monday, December 18, 2006

The fires that had burned beneath the ruins of the World Trade Center in New York City for the previous three months were declared extinguished except for a few scattered hot spots.

Over THREE months later and the fires in the WTC are still burning?

Guess all of the JP4--Jet Fuel--that dribbled down 80 stories, sunk to the basement and stayed volatile for 3 months and just kept on burning, huh?

Like hell. For a fire to burn that long takes a lot more than jet fuel,which is basically kerosene.

What the hell else was in the WTC that made the residual fires burn for over three months?

You can damn well bet that whatever was added to the mix that day, to help bring down WTC 1 & 2, was resistant to water, as the NYFD would have poured millions of gallons of water on those sites to suppress and smother the flames, yet it still burned.

As for Obama's chances of winning, forget it.

The same vote stealing machinery that helped STUPID steal the 2000 and 2004 elections is still in place and being fine-tuned.

There are already reports of voters being scrubbed from the polls in N. Mexico and Colorado, black voters.

The neocons can't take a chance with an unknown like Obama.

They might wind up in prison.

Unknown said...

Greg Bacon said...

Over THREE months later and the fires in the WTC are still burning?

Guess all of the JP4--Jet Fuel--that dribbled down 80 stories, sunk to the basement and stayed volatile for 3 months and just kept on burning, huh?

Like hell. For a fire to burn that long takes a lot more than jet fuel,which is basically kerosene


What DOES burn that long? I think when we've narrowed that down AND when we've narrowed down the list of 'usual suspects' who have access to it as well as the means of DELIVERING it, we will have found ourselves a murderous and treasonous conspiracy.

We can start with those who benefited?

Larry Silverstein, who made billions, and George W. Bush who also made billions for his cabal of big oil and defense contractors.

We should also take a look at the role that was most certainly played by Marvin Bush, whose firm was in charge of WTC security.

We should also put the members of PNAC in front of a federal grand jury under oath! I want to know what they knew and when they knew it.

Then we should start building a gallows.

Anonymous said...

Len:

Sorry, man. I love your blog and you are generally dead on but I can't buy this 9-11 conspiracy nonsense. I think it was more that Bush and team knew and al-Qaeda attack was coming and did nothing (which also makes them accessories before the fact). There are too many assumptions in your theory - too many things would have had to occurred perfectly and too many people would have had to be in on it. There is NO FUCKING WAY you could keep this under wraps for going on 7 years now. NO WAY!

Love your other stuff, though. Keep up the great work.

The Conservative Deflator

Anonymous said...

Fuzz sez…

Damien,
Sure, The Kid’s a politician, people always get a polly when they vote on E-Day. But on an either/or basis the main reason I prefer Obi is because he’s more likely to do something major about the biosphere and ward off the possibily of Wall-E World coming earlier than expected. Show a bit of leadership on the issue to the word after the demise of The Imbecile. Also believe that The Cabal will have some chance of facing Justice under BHO rather than bugger all under McBush.

I think BHO will be the next POTUS.

Nobody gave much chance to the Dems getting a Senate majority in 2006 notwithstanding the betrayal of Joey “The Rat” Lieberman. Intrade had odds of ~22% about the prospect, yet the result was 51-49. Not that the chickenshit bastards did anything with their Senate and House majority re taking it up to BushCo.

The polls are all over the place right now, likely voters say this, registered voters say that. Not factored is the massive groundswell of newly registered voters among young, Black and Hispanic electorates. Team Kid have a formidable grass/netroots organization that makes Johnny Bomb-Bomb’s look amateurish. Turd Blossom and his protege, Steve “Schmuckens” Schmidt, have little to sell but Hate whereas The Kid’s floggin’ Hope and I reckon a majority of Americans are ready to buy what Obi is hawkin’. McCain’s people are spending the bulk of their funds on TV ads and not on the ground.

"My, what a lovely dress you're wearing today, Mrs Cleaver, have you considered helping us transport the huge numbers of new voters to polling stations this November?"

"Well, actually no Eddie...."

"That's not a problem, Mrs Cleaver, should you change your mind please let me know next week when I visit your neighbourhood again"

Like Peck's paste, a little bit of person to person contact a la Eddie Haskell goes a long way. People know that it's bullshit but they eat it up anyway.

Most of the 18-35s who’ve never voted before and are now on the rolls have mobile phones. Nobody consistently polls them and they’re bigtime for Obama.

The cats at CATO are only advisors, President Obama would be The New Decider:) If Obi doesn’t like their advice he’ll tell ’em to get fucked. Besides, these people aren’t PNAC, he could be palling around with heaps worse than CATO.

“The Cato Institute is non-partisan, and its scholars' views are not consistently aligned with either major political party. For example, Cato scholars have been sharply critical of the Bush administration on a wide variety of issues, including the Iraq war, civil liberties, education, health care, agriculture, energy policy, and excessive government spending. However, on other issues, most notably Social Security,[2][3] global warming,[4][5] tax policy,[6] and immigration,[7][8][9][10][11] Cato scholars have praised administration initiatives. Cato scholars have criticized both John McCain [12] [13] and Barack Obama.” (wiki)


Mind you, if BushCo whack Iran during the Dem Convention, I’m prepared to reconsider:)

Damien, are you prepared to back your judgement and wager a year’s subscription to the Monthly (or a maths or chess or whatever journal of your choice) on the outcome of Nov 4?

Anonymous said...

The neocons can't take a chance with an unknown like Obama. -- oh, he's known all right.

Anonymous said...

Thanks, Fuzz, but I'll pass on the wager. I do encourage you to look at Joseph Cannon's website. I've lost the link but he's done a detailed demographic breakdown on the voting situation and says McCain is set to win, supported in part by disaffected Dems who have supported Hilary. But, we'll see.

Unknown said...

The Conservative Deflator

Sorry, man. I love your blog and you are generally dead on but I can't buy this 9-11 conspiracy nonsense. I think it was more that Bush and team knew and al-Qaeda attack was coming and did nothing (which also makes them accessories before the fact).

First of all --prove to me that al-Qaeda exists. Prove to me that Bin Laden was stilll alive when he is 'said' to have perped 911. Explain to me how the BBC managed to interview 7 of the hijackers that Bushco have would us believe died in the 911 attacks! I issued that challenged years ago. I stilll have had NO takers. BTW --those 7 hijackers include at least two which we are expected to believe were incinerated and buried in a common grave at Arlington! I am confident, however, that the BBC did not conduct its interview with them in a dank hole in the ground!

There are too many assumptions in your theory -too many things would have had to occurred perfectly and too many people would have had to be in on it. There is NO FUCKING WAY you could keep this under wraps for going on 7 years now. NO WAY!

So --of course --a rag tag team of incompetent pilots, we are expected to believe, pulled off what YOU say the US government could not have!!!!!

Secondly, what IS my theory? What, precisely, are my assumptions? I haven't, in fact, put forward a 'theory' but have only suggested of late a plausible suspect and the 'probable cause' to begin a REAL investigation of George W. Bush whose numerous lies about 911 should have justified the creation of a federal grand jury to investigate 911. There is, in fact, such a grand jury convened in White Plains, NY!

Part of the problem is that there is no 'single' theory. As I pointed out, the 'official theory' has been papered over numerous times.

This is, after all, a matter of 'burden of proof'! Bushies put forward a theory and the burden of proof is upon those who buy into the theory to prove it! Those who assert must prove. There is --in fact --not a shred of hard, admissible evidence, in support of Bush's official theory or anything said by Bush about 911! There are, however, many glaring holes, any one of which utterly discredits anything said by Bush. A few fatal flaws include:

1) The existence of a hard, tightly knit steel core is a big hole in the official Arab conspiracy theory. The existence of such a 'core' is a body blow to officialdom. The ORIGINAL OFFICIAL CONSPIRACY theory, put forward shortly after 911, came in the form of a PBS documentary which included an animation of 'pancaking'. It was, in fact, a lie that conveniently left out the fact that the twin towers have hard, steel cores.

The slick animation showed NO cores at all --steel or otherwise. Additionally, the 911 Commission report has likewise, omitted the existence of the cores. Why were the cores left out? Why is the existence of cores denied? The cores disprove the fantasy that airliner crashes caused the near perfect, symmetrical collapses at a time when fires had cooled, the smoke was black, the worst was over.

2) WTC 7 is another big hole in the official conspiracy theory. If airliner are said to have caused the collapse of the Twins, what is the cause of the collapse of Buidling 7? Fires? I don't think so! Other buildings around 7 had bigger fires --longer, hotter. Silverstein himself said that Bldg 7 was 'pulled'! Ask any demolition expert what 'pulled' means!

3) No airliner wreckage was recovered at the Pentagon. None! Nada! Zip! Where is it? Now --if someone should tell me that it was hauled off and destroyed, then why haven't we prosecuted the evil bastard who ordered the destruction of material evidence of a capital crime?

4) Why are their no Arab names on the official autopsy report? How was the BBC able to interview several 'dead' hijackers after they were said to have died in 911. At least two of the hijacker interviewed by the BBC AFTER 911 were said to have been on board Flight 77. Why were there NO Arab names on the original flight manifests. I said 'original' flight manifests --not new ones that have been prepared after the fact to paper over the holes in 'officialdom'.

5) At last, the melting point of steel is NOT A MATTER OF DEBATE OR OPINION! It is a matter of verifiable fact. Anyone defending Bush or his official conspiracy theory must produce a peer-reviewed paper describing a verifiable, repeatable experiment in which steel is DEMONSTRATED to melt at Kerosene fire temperatures. That will never happen and until it does: BUSH'S OFFICIAL CONSPIRACY THEORY OF 911 IS UTTER BULLSHIT!

6) Though Bush ordered WTC steel hauled off to be sold to foreign countries, a simple forensic examination of the girders might have revealed THERMATE! The presence of THERMITE or THERMATE would have discredited the entire 'official conspiracy theory'. It is also probable cause to investigate Marvin Bush who was in charge of WTC security; 3) it means that the airliners DID NOT cause the collapse of the towers.

Few think rationally about 911.

It was a crime! As such, every scrap of evidence should have been examined by law. Not only was evidence not examined, it was hauled off, sold to China or destroyed! I want to know why that was! But I am 'tarred' with a label for doing so!

Whoever ordered the destruction of this evidence committed several felonies with the order. Those carrying out the orders are, likewise, subject to prosecution. I would also liked to know what motive innocent folk have for covering up crimes, destroying material evidence, bullying congress or lying repeatedly about the 'crime' itself! Last time I checked 'covering up a crime, destroying material evidence' are crimes themselves. Why is Bush still free when, in fact, he should be serving time in a federal lock up or awaiting the execution of a death sentence for mass murder?

It was Conan Doyle (by way of his creation, Sherlock Holmes) who said: "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth!" Bush's official conspiracy theory of 911 is, in fact, impossible and because it is impossible and defies the laws of physics, it DID NOT HAPPEN! Therefore, Bush's 'official lie' may be eliminated and would have already been if the subject had not been so emotional. It is time that this absurd and ridiculous cover story be consigned to the dust bin of history for the load of bullshit that it is.

NOw --let us hope that the grand jury investigating 911 (White Plains New York) insists upon getting to the truth of 911, a truth that is consistent with known and verifiable elementary physics.

BTW --the melting point of steel can be demonstrated in a high school physics lab.

Anonymous said...

Len:

I can assure you that Osama bin Laden was alive on Sept. 11th, 2001 - he has appeared on various video and audio tapes since then, so WTF? He was also captured on several SAT phone intercepts after 9-11 by U.S. Special Forces. I think this line of reasoning, if you can call it that, makes you sound foolish. Osama bin Laden was definitely alive! Is he now? Hard to know.. Al-Qaeda, as a loosely knit group of "ragtag" criminals also existed, although they were never an existential threat to the U.S. like the Soviet Union was, I will grant you that. Your points about the 7 alleged hijackers who are still alive is an interesting one, but may be just because Americans are so poor with Arabic names they fingered the wrong guys to begin with. I think there is incontrovertible proof that Mohammed Atta led the hijacking team (the FBI found diaries) and that a group of Arab men commandered four planes that were crashed into the WTC, Pentagon and that field in PA. The FBI has air traffic control tapes, etc. with Atta's voice on it. Did they get the names of the other perps right? Probably not, but that says more about the competence of the FBI than any "thermite" or "Global Hawk" theory. Those are lame and don't hold up to any serious analysis.
The WTC 7 being pulled down is suspicious, but that sounds more like Larry Silverstein committing insurance fraud than anything else.
By the way, there were pieces of the aircraft found at the Pentagon. This notion that someone ran around after a massive explosion like that "planting" pieces of shredded aluminum and engine parts is absurd.

Sorry, man, you do good work but 9-11 wasn't some tightly wound, nefarious plot by the Bushies. They are too fucking incompetent to pull that off.

Peace,
The Conservative Deflator

LanceThruster said...

Len - You're willingness to look at issues from a reality-based perspective makes you a treasured asset. If you ever come across transcripts of Jesse Ventura on the Howard Stern Show ( mp3 of interview ) it would be great to have it posted as he asks a lot of the right questions.

Ventura Fears 'We Did 9/11 To Ourselves'

Keep up the great work, Len.

Unknown said...

The Conservative Deflator said...

I can assure you that Osama bin Laden was alive on Sept. 11th, 2001 - he has appeared on various video and audio tapes since then, so WTF? He was also captured on several SAT phone intercepts after 9-11 by U.S. Special Forces.

You can't make any such assurance. Did you speak to Osama? Did you shake his hand? Can you post a photograph with him with a date stamp at the bottom?

I've yet to see a single piece of hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 911! Not a scrap!

Secondly, several major news organizations reported that in July of that year, Bin Laden was getting dialysis for kidney disease in a Dubai hospital.

I think this line of reasoning, if you can call it that, makes you sound foolish.

Have you considered what you sound like when you believe bullshit upon no evidence whatsoever? Have you considered how stupid the 19 rag tag incompetent pilots theory sounds like when it is thought about objectively!

s FBI Director Robert Muellerwas correct when he said that there is no evidence to connect the 'said' 19 'hijackers' with the events of 911. Also: Mueller: Lack of hard evidence . Mueller's words were:

"In our investigation, we [FBI] have not uncovered a single piece of paper -- either here in the United States or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere -- that mentioned any aspect of the Sept. 11 plot."

Maybe they didn't turn up any evidence, because there is none!

I repeat: show me ONE piece of hard evidence that connects 19 arab hijackers alledgedly supervised by Bin Laden to the events of 911!

How about you show me and OFFICIAL autopsy report! Just one! How about you show me the ORIGINAL flight manifests --the ones with NO ARAB NAMES on them. Show me one that has JUST ONE Arab name on it! How about you explain the fact that the director of the FBI said that there was no hard evidence

Let's consider what you said earlier:

There is NO FUCKING WAY you could keep this under wraps for going on 7 years now. NO WAY!

It would appear that, in fact, they haven't keept it under wraps at all!

Osama bin Laden was definitely alive! Is he now? Hard to know..

Benazir Bhutto said he was murdered. Her remarks were censored by the BBC for having said so. Secondly, BBC, the Guardian and numerous French news outlets reported that Bin Laden was on dialysis in a Dubai hospital months BEFORE 911 when he was visited by two members of the CIA! At last, the ONLY tape that the alleged Bin Laden released AFTER 911 is an obvious phony that has been poked fun at even by the MSM.

Al-Qaeda, as a loosely knit group of "ragtag" criminals also existed, although they were never an existential threat to the U.S.

Al Qaeda means 'the base' and refers to 'the base' established by the CIA during the Russia/Afghanistan war. Al Qaeda is a creation of the CIA.

Your points about the 7 alleged hijackers who are still alive is an interesting one, but may be just because Americans are so poor with Arabic names they fingered the wrong guys to begin with.

You raise a strawman fallacy because you didn't check out the links. The best know source was the BBC. They are not 'American' and have, on staff, Arabic scholars expert in middle east matters! The 'alleged hijackers' are identified with pics as well and is reported by European sources who have no trouble with Arabic names. At least two of the said hijackers that are clearly STILL ALIVE were said to have been on board Flight 77. I choose Flight 77 because, unlike the twin towers, actual bodies were recovered. If you wish to prove your cockamamie theory, SHOW ME the autopsy report of those 'hijackers' which the BBC says SURVIVED the crash. I repeat: the official conspiracy theory is utter bullshit for which you have not shown a shred of hard or admissible evidence because there is none!

I think there is incontrovertible proof that Mohammed Atta led the hijacking team (the FBI found diaries) and that a group of Arab men commandered four planes that were crashed into the WTC, Pentagon and that field in PA.

What part of NO EVIDENCE don't you understand? That is NO EVIDENCE as in FBI Director Robert Mueller saying that is NO EVIDENCE to connect the 'said' 19 'hijackers' with the events of 911. That includes Atta!

Indeed, many of the 'hijackers' were interviewed by the BBC after they were said to have died in the attacks. That HARDLY supports Bush's theory that they were on board doomed airliners!

NO EVIDENCE means just what Mueller intended it to mean: there NO EVIDENCE that the 'said' hijackers were connected in any way with 911.

Bin Laden, in fact, has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11! Nor have any of the alleged 'hijackers'! In September 2002, FBI director Robert Mueller twice told CNN that “there is no legal proof to prove the identities of the suicidal hijackers”.

Now ---if there is NO EVIDENCE that Bush's patsies were involved; and, further, kerosene does not melt steel; and further, there was NO WRECKAGE TRACEABLE to a 757 found on the Pentagon lawn, then Bush's stupid theory is up the shit creek!

Bush is left with nothing but baseless assertions designed to fool the weak minded, the emtionally immature and millions whose patriotism is misplaced.

I no longer care what you or anyone 'thinks' may be the case, I wnat the verifiable facts.

I want to see an Mohammed Attas' name on an autopsy report!. Show me an an original flight manifest with his name on it. I demand 'original' flight manifest because the PR department in at least one airline cooked up a 'flight manifest' AFTER THE FACT to conform to the official report. It differ from the original derived from a head count of passengers at the time of the flight in that the original included NO ARAB NAMES whatsoever. I've covered airliner crashes up close. I've NEVER seen one that did not have bodies.

The FBI has air traffic control tapes, etc. with Atta's voice on it.

Show me the pedigree. I frankly don't believe that the FBI has any such tape and there is absolutely no proof of it! Try to get that tape entered into evidence in a court unless you could produce a pedigree!

Did they get the names of the other perps right? Probably not, but that says more about the competence of the FBI than any "thermite" or "Global Hawk" theory. Those are lame and don't hold up to any serious analysis.

Demanding an investigation that might have revealed the presence of the only substance that might have resulted in melted steel in a kerosene fire is the only INTELLIGENT demand that can be made in this instance.

I am not to blame if Bush deliberately orders the destruction of evidence, a crime, by the way!

Secondly, if a 757 had struck the Pentagon, it is reasonable to expect that TWO ROTORS of Flight 77 would have been left behind!

But, the were not found and don't even think about trying to tell this board they they 'vaporized; upon impact! If the rotors had been there at all, I am sure, you would have produced a picture of BOTH of them on the Pentagon lawn where the single rotor --most certainly a rotor from a Global Hawk was found and, in fact, photographed!

You can't post a picture of each of two rotors of about 9 feet diameter because the pictures DO NOT EXIST! They DO NOT EXIST becuase there were none on the lawn at any time following the crash. I published the only rotor that was found. It is the picture of a rotor about three feet in diameter, roughly one third the size of a 757 rotor! It is most likely a Global Hawk but might not be! One thing is certain: IT IS NOT TWO ROTORS FROM A 757! Therefore, the official conspiracy theory is utter bullshit and only idiots believe it!

The WTC 7 being pulled down is suspicious,

It's not suspicious; Larry Silverstein is on record saying that it was 'pulled' following his discussion with firefighters.

but that sounds more like Larry Silverstein committing insurance fraud than anything else.

So what? Are you saying that Silverstein's motives prove or support Bush's idiotic theory? If so, you need to take a remedial course in elementary logic.

By the way, there were pieces of the aircraft found at the Pentagon.

Who says? There were tiny pieces but NO ONE ever traced them to a 757! Now --why would tiny pieces of unscathed scraps survive when, we are expectecd to believe, that the huge ten foot rotors completely vaporized! Even in elementary school science class, we were taught the conservation of matter and energy, simply neither matter nor energy can be created or destroyed. Even after several scraps were planted on the lawn (this is photographed by the way) the total amount of scraps would not add up to some 100 plus tons --the weight of a single 757. Damien, who posts regularly here, put it this way: 100 tons of airliner will leave behind 100 tons of debris. There was no where near that much debris on the Pentagon lawn. At last, I have some experience covering airliner crashes as a radio/TV reporter --a career spanning over two decades and included major market and network experience. I never saw an airliner crash that looked anything like the crash the Pentagon. Every crash I covered has lots of wreckage and charred bodies. No one vaporized! And NO airliner ever vaporized or popped into another dimension! There is ALWAYS traceable debris.

The Space Shuttle crashed into the stratosphere at about 24,000 MPH, as I recall. It broke apart but left IDENTIFIABLE wreckage over three fuckin' states! It was recovered and identified, something that was NOT done at the Pentagon.

There are hundreds, possibly thousands of pics taken from the many cameras trained on the Pentagon. Of those thousands, the public got ONE dinky, fuzzy, inconclusive piece o' shit GIF that proves ah-so-fuckin'lutely nothing!!!! Why is that? What is the Bush administration, which obstructed the 911 commission, trying to hide? As a citizen, I have a right to know!

This notion that someone ran around after a massive explosion like that "planting" pieces of shredded aluminum and engine parts is absurd.

They were fuckin' photographed!

Sorry, man, you do good work but 9-11 wasn't some tightly wound, nefarious plot by the Bushies. They are too fucking incompetent to pull that off.

I feel sorry for you! Nothing you have said even addresses the issue! And you have utterly failed to refute a single point. Moreovfer, you betray a complete ignorance of history, physics, and law. You fail to grasp a simple concept about which western jurisprudence is based: burden of proof. In other words, those who assert must prove! Bush and co have not merely failed to prove their impossible assertions (many of which defy the laws of physics) they have worked overtly to cover it up, in many case committing the the felony crime of 'destruction of evidence'! Look that up at Findlaw before you spout off on this topic again!

Now ---if you wish to demonstrate that Bush's absurd theory should even be taken seriously (let alone prove it outright) then stick a piece of steel into a kerosene fire. Then report back to this blog with the hard and repeatable data. Please tell this blog the hottest temperature you were able to achieve with a kerosene fire! Then tell this blog how hot your fire had to be before the steel melted! Unless you are prepared to convince this blog that the laws of physics have been repealed, I will consider your posts to be no better than the many Bush shills who used to attack me but gave up!

Some kindly advice: take a remedial course in physics. Take a citizen's 'introductory' course in law to include what constitutes admissible evidence, probable cause, burden of proof, etc. These are NOT just words, but you apparently think they are. Sad, really!

Unknown said...

LanceThruster said...

You're willingness to look at issues from a reality-based perspective makes you a treasured asset. Keep up the great work, Len.

Thanks and thanks for the link. I won't give up until the 911 perps are behind bars awaiting sentence!

timking said...

Kick his ass Len!

Ventura is an awesome guy! Thanks for the link lance. Here's a couple more links I just ran through, the first follows from lance's link:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2008/052108_witch_hunt.htm
Watch the video at the bottom of the article after you've read.
I'd vote for Jessy for Pres :)


Also I ran across this awesome video of Ron Paul asking hard questions of General Patraeus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oOrgoslUe0&NR=1

timking said...

Pardon the misspell of Petraeus.

Anonymous said...

Len:

It's obvious you feel passionately about this, but you don't have to attack me personally. I am probably as well-educated as you are. I feel the same about Bush and his cronies as you do. I just think you haven't offered any plausible alternative to the events of 9-11 as we know them. Maybe you should explain to me a few things:
1) Why was a video of Osama bin Laden found with Sheik al-Ghamdi bragging about "calculating the number of casualties of the enemies"?
Link: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A05EFD6103FF937A25751C1A9679C8B63
2) Why is Mohammed Atta seen going through airport security in Portland Maine on the connecting flight that became American 77?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001976972_tsa11.html
Where did he go if he wasn't on the plane that hit WTC Tower 1?
Why were four hijackers caught on tape boarding the plane that hit the Pentagon? Where did they go?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20040722/ai_n14579636
3) If the 4 planes weren't hijacked by the 19, whose voices do we hear on the cockpit flight recorders released by the FAA?
http://www.observer.com/node/49415
4) Why are there dozens of eyewitness accounts of an American Airlines jet hitting the Pentagon, if it wasn't an American airlines jet?
Link: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html
What are those pieces of metal from a 757 doing on the ground outside the Pentagon at the link above? There is a gentleman that saw it happen who left his e-mail address, if you would like to contact him.
6) Len, you tell me - what brought down the WTC towers? A nuke? Where is the fallout?

When you asked about why there weren't an autopsy reports, keep in mind that one forensic pathologist described the recovery effort this way, "Imagine taking a million pounds of concrete, a million pounds of steel, a half million pounds of glass and 3,000 human bodies and putting it all into a gigantic blender and dialing it up to puree" - that is why there are no hijackers 'bodies' to autopsy.

Sorry, Len, you are dead wrong on this one. If you are such a great logician, apply Occam's Razor, my friend.

The Conservative Deflator

Unknown said...

The Conservative Deflator said...

offered any plausible alternative to the events of 9-11 as we know them.

You did NOT look up "burden of proof". Bush asserted; BUST MUST PROVE. It's not up to anyone to offer up an alternative of any thing at any time. MOREOVER, it is fallacious and stupid to conclude that because no one had offered up an alternative to bullshit, then bullshit must be true.

Maybe you should explain to me a few things Why was a video of Osama bin Laden found with Sheik al-Ghamdi bragging about "calculating the number of casualties of the enemies"?

First of all, I don't have to explain anything to anyone. I am NOT the one putting forward a theory that even the FBI doesn't believe. I don't know and don't give a shit WHY a video of bin Laden was found with a Sheik. What do you think that proves? I think it proves that a video of Bin Laden was found with a Sheik!

And WHICH bin Laden was it? The fat one with the flat nose ---or the tall skinny Bin Laden that was dead by the time his 'role' was taken over in the sequel? So what?

Why is Mohammed Atta seen going through airport security in Portland Maine on the connecting flight that became American 77?

What do YOU think that proves other than someone at some time went through a securty gate? It might have been Atta, it might not have been Atta.

Where did he go if he wasn't on the plane that hit WTC Tower 1?

That is the most absurd and idiotic leap of logic I've ever heard. X went through a gate; therefore x hijacked the plane! Or worse: X must have been on the plane because we don't know where he might have gone if he wasn't!

Why were four hijackers caught on tape boarding the plane that hit the Pentagon?

So what? I have NTSB data that indicates that Flight 77 never descended below some 270 feet after it took off. The Pentagon is only 71 feet high. You figure that one out!

Moreover, you err when you assume that 'four' persons were hijackers. You don't know that for a fact! You have ASSUMED that to be true and then worked backward!

If the 4 planes weren't hijacked by the 19, whose voices do we hear on the cockpit flight recorders released by the FAA?

Existence precedes essence. Bush must first prove that there WAS a hijacking before I will even consider the possibility that an easily faked recording was --in fact --a product of a cockpit flight recorder! First things first! Secondly, if the hijacking itself is impossible, a mere voice recording of dubious pedigree hardly refutes the laws of physics.

Why are there dozens of eyewitness accounts of an American Airlines jet hitting the Pentagon, if it wasn't an American airlines jet?

There were NOT dozens of witnesses and fewer credible ones. Two Pentagon Security officers probably could not have seen what they said they saw --an airliner enroute to the Pentagon.

But they COULD NOT HAVE SEEN WHAT THEY SAID THEY SAW.

A trajectory that would have caused the lamp pole damage enroute would have placed the offending airliner (had there been one) BEHIND the 'witnesses'!

Now --were they lying? Or just mistaken? I frankly don't care! Simply, they did not see what they said or thought they saw. If they had seen what they said they saw, there would have been NO damage to the light poles!

No matter! Bush's cover-up has ensured that these folk will never have to tell their stories under a rigorous cross-examination!

Any lawyer should have already told you that eyewitness testimony is the LEAST RELIABLE evidence there is. I saw David Copperfield make the statute of liberty dissapear. On another occasion --an elephant! I recently saw a younger man levitate above some damn building in Las Vegas. I also saw the same guy walk straight up a wall! And, later, he walked THROUGH IT!

At last, there are probably fewer than one in ten million folk in the entire world who can distinguish within mere seconds between an airborne 757 and a Global Hawk!

What are those pieces of metal from a 757 doing on the ground outside the Pentagon at the link above?

The man who put them there was photographed doing so. In the meantime, the piece just lay there!

You DON'T KNOW and cannot prove what those pieces of metal are! No one, in fact, traced a single scrap to Flight 77! The few scraps were gathered up and hauled off, presumably destroyed! There was no investigation and there is no evidence whatsoever that the said piece came from an airliner.

Let me repeat this: an airliner of some 100 tons will leave behind 100 tons of debris. That is an elementary fact of elementary physics: neither matter nor energy can be created or destroyed!

Flight 77 did NOT rewrite the laws of physics nor did Bush by decree or signing statement. If one hundreds tons of wreckage was recovered from the Pentagon, I will kiss Bush's ass! I have no fears! The total mass of Pentagon debris, I am quite sure, is ONE TENTH that amount or even less.

Having covered various kinds of crashes, I can tell you that there is always wreckage. Here are some things that are normally found at aircraft wreckage but were NOT found at the Pentagon: airline seats, bodies, luggage, victims clothes, and, in this case, arab hijakcers.

If Bush had been interested in PROVING his THEORY, he might have insisted upon tests that would have 1) determined their origin beyond any reasonable doubt; 2) reconstructing the airliner as was usually done in cases of airliner crash. NOT THIS TIME! WHY??? I will submit a simple hypothesis: 911 WAS NOT INVESTIGATED because a real investigation would have disproved the official bullshit story that NOT EVEN THE FBI believes.

6) Len, you tell me - what brought down the WTC towers? A nuke? Where is the fallout?

I am losing patience with that kind of shit! READ MY LIPS and look up BURDEN OF PROOF! Bush put forward the stupid theory --not me!

I don't have to prove shit! And I wish to hell this had never happened and that Bush had never stolen the election.

I have my own agenda. There are things I would rather do with my precious time than argue about this thisfucking, stupid issue that would not even be an issue if the American people had not swallowed this load of codswallap to begin with!

I resent the heinous and criminal nature of Bush's stupid intrusion upon our very lives, I will work daily to bring his sorry ass to trial for capital crimes in connection with his wars in both Afghanistan and Iraq. See US Codes, Title 18, Section 2441. Bush is personally subject to the death penalty!

Bush asserted; Bush must prove.

If you tell me some cockamamie story (which you have done here) it's up to YOU to prove YOUR shit!

Bushco put forward a stupid story that defies the laws of physics, assumes 'facts' not in evidence or established and DEPENDS upon gullible folk like you believing them!

You have asked me to explain events that you have FAILED TO PROVE even happened!

An investigation of the towers, for example, would have verified --one way or the other --the existence of thermate or thermite. The investigation was never done. Whose fault is that? Mine? I don't think so!

Bushco ordered the destruction of the evidence? Why? Simply, the existence of either termite or thermate would have proven conclusively that it NOT airliners that brought down the Twin Towers.

When you asked about why there weren't an autopsy reports, keep in mind that one forensic pathologist described the recovery effort this way, "Imagine taking a million pounds of concrete, a million pounds of steel, a half million pounds of glass and 3,000 human bodies and putting it all into a gigantic blender and dialing it up to puree" - that is why there are no hijackers 'bodies' to autopsy.

That is NOT a description of the Pentagon where, in fact, there IS an official coronor report and --guess what --there are NO ARAB NAMES ON IT!

And you also ignored the fact that the Washington Post (among several papers who said that there were NO ARABS on Flight 77, said that Hani Hanjour (said to have been the hijacker pilot) DID NOT BOARD flight 77 because the didn't have a ticket!

I also find that it significant that NO AIRLINER SEATS recovered at the Pentagon. I've covered airliner crashes. There are ALWAYS seats ...with bodies in them!

Not at the Pentagon!

Let's sum it up: 1) no Arabs, 2) no melting steel, 3) no collapse unless steel melted and it didn't, can't, 4) Flight 77 never descended below some 270 feet, 5 no official coronor's report, no effort to investigate.....I could go on and on.

BUSH HAS NOTHING!

NOTHING said by Bush about 911 is true!

Nothing in the ófficial theory is either true or verifiable.

There is NOT A SHRED of admissible or verifiable evidence in support of the official theory.

So --why do people insist upon believing it? It makes some people feel good about themselves. In other cases, it reinforces prejudices about Arabs and/or muslims. And, in other instances, GOP types will profess to believe anything said by anyone who will give them a tax cut!

I have stated numerous times what constitutes proof. You just ignored it...posting stuff that doesn't even matter.

This is very, very simple: if steel will not melt in Kerosene fires, then the official theory is bullshit!

That's all you need to know.

If steel will not melt at Kerosene fires temperatures, then SOMETHING ELSE caused the towers to fall.

There is no point debating this issue. Just fuckin' try it! Build a kerosene fire and see if melts steel!

IT NEVER HAS AND NEVER WILL!

But there is more: if there were NO ARABS on the flights, then the official theory is bullshit!

Again: there were no Arabs on either the original flight flight manifests or on the official autopsy report released under an FOIA request!

There were no Arabs on the official autopsy report because there were no Arabs on the flight!

But there is also the burden of proof. Bushco says that there WERE arabs on the flight! PROVE IT! The official autopsy report says otherwise. The official autopsy report, by the way, is admissible in court. Bush's word for anything, however, is utterly meaningless and would not be admissible in court unless he were under oath! Then we could prosecute his sorry ass for perjury!

It's not up to me to prove that there were not! Let me point out: a 'flight manifest' is not an official document and may or may not be admissible in court. A CORONOR'S report IS an official document. Dr. Olmsted requested (FOIA) and received the official coronors report from Flight 77.

Sorry, Len, you are dead wrong on this one.

No! I am absolutely correct and nothing you said refuted me and, in most case, you didn't even address the issue.

Bush is a liar and the official conspiracy theory is utter bullshit from start to finish. If Bush were correct in anyway about anything, it is by accident! I don't frankly think you UNDERSTAND a thing I've written. That's not MY problem. That's yours.

If you are such a great logician, apply Occam's Razor, my friend.

I was weaned on Occam's razor and I will wager than you don't really understand it.

You probably think that Occam said that the 'simplest explanation is usually the best', don't you?

Occam DID NOT say that the 'simplest' explanationa are correct.

What Occam said was: "Multiplicity ought not to be posited without necessity."

Occam's 'razor' applied to 911 means that the only valid explanation for 911 is that the 'official theory' is, in fact, 'complicated' by a 'muliticity' that was posited 'without necessity'.

In other words, Bush PRESUMED to posit the existence of 19 arab hijackers when, in fact, the truth is really much, much simpler.

IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO POSIT OR TO ASSUME THE EXISTENCE OF ARAB HIJAKCERS IN ORDER TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED ON 911! It is BUSH and his proponents who violate Occam --NOT ME!

For example, there are no Arab names on the only official autopsy list to have been released under FOIA. Bush has to çome up with endless circumlocutions and other complications to explain WHY Arab names are not on the ONLY official autopsy conducted with regard to 911. Bushco and official conspiracy theorists violate Occam --not me!

The simplest and the best explanation for the fact that THERE ARE NO NAMES ON THE AUTOPSY list is this: NO ARABS WERE AUTOPSIED BECAUSE THERE WERE NO ARABS ON THE FLIGHT!

That is the ONLY explanation for that consistent with: 1) provable verifiable facts; 2)Occam's razor!

Again: there were no Arabs on the list because there were no Arabs on the flight.

See how easy this is when you take your head out of your ass!!!!

That is CONSISTENT with the Washington Post report that stated FLATLY that Hani Hanjour did NOT board flight 77 because he didn't have a ticket.

If Hani Hanjour was not on the flight, Bush's bullshit bites the dust.

Occam rules! Bush bullshit walks!

Unknown said...

I might add: I've had this Occam Razor debate before and, likewise, with folk who have never bothered to read Occam.

When I stated that there was no proof, indeed, no admissible or verifiable evidence that Hani Hanjour was EVER on Flight 77, I was given the ol' '...but how do you explain' treatment!

Understand this: EXPLAINING SHIT IS NOT MY JOB!

SHORING UP THE HOLES IN BUSH'S PACK OF LIES IS NOT MY JOB!

If Bush gets caught papering over his own bullshit, then THAT IS NOT MY PROBLEM!

My position is: let's put Bush in front of a federal grand jury upon the probable cause that he has lied to the people in violation of his Oath of Office.

Then, when he has tells the same lies to the federal grand jury that he has told the American people, then INDICT HIS SORRY ASS for perjury!

The Congress would be compelled to impeach and remove him so that he could begin serving time in a federal lock up!

With Bush out of the White House, public opinion must simply DEMAND that Congress appoint a special prosecutor empowered to investigate EVERY ASPECT of 911!

Then we will see just how far Bush gets away with trying to snow hard-nosed investigators with bullshit and completely unverifiable stories about 'Arab hijackers!"

Arab hijackers, my ass!

Anonymous said...

" Horatio: He waxes desparate with imagination.

Marcellus: Let's follow. 'Tis not fit thus to obey him.

Horatio: Have after. To what issue will this come?

Marcellus: SOMETHING IS ROTTEN IN THE STATE OF DENMARK!

Horatio: Heaven will direct it.

Marcellus: Nay, let's follow him."
(Hamlet Act 1, scene 4, 87-91)

http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/something-rotten-state-denmark
-----------------------------------

Cowboy, I found the following historical nugget in Volume 3 of Churchill's Memoires 1939-1945;

Nazi General Halder witnessed during the Neuremberg Tribunal;

Before the attack on Russia, the Fuhrer ordered a conference with all the commanders and those who were connected with the high-command. The issue, the coming offensive against Russia. I cannot recall the precise date(of the conference). In this meeting our Fuhrer stated that the methods to be used in the war against Russia should be different from the methods sofar used during the western campaign. He explained that the 'struggle' between Russia and Germany was foremost a Russian struggle. He said that, since the Russians did'nt join the The Hague Convention, Russian prisonors of war should'nt be threated according to the The Hague Convention rules. He also said that the communist-party commissioners should not be regarded as prisonors of war.

TAKE A WALK ON THE DARK SIDE, said the Furher!(my own words)

Aint that a coïncidence! Cheney, that sick evil SOB, gave Hitlers sick war-methods in Russia a curious, pathological and psychopath twist, (We may have to work on the dark side) just before the U.S. ravaged Irak in a 'socalled' war on terror.

It is also no coïncidence that the U.S. refused to aknowledge the International Criminal Court in (very cynic) The Hague. They, the Neo-Con Thugs, AIPAC and theyr puppet/president W.Bush planned and knew beforehand that they would commit high crimes, warcrimes, torture, genocide. They knew beforehand that they would commit multiple crimes and warcrimes against Humanity according to the Neuremberg principals and the Geneva Convention, and for that THEY SHOULD BE HANGED BY THE NECK!

They should also be HANGED BY THE NECK for crimes committed on 9/11.

I hope I translated (Dutch to English)the part from Churchill's Volume 3 good enought to make my point. If not please tell me.

Jacob.

Anonymous said...

" Horatio: He waxes desparate with imagination.

Marcellus: Let's follow. 'Tis not fit thus to obey him.

Horatio: Have after. To what issue will this come?

Marcellus: SOMETHING IS ROTTEN IN THE STATE OF DENMARK!

Horatio: Heaven will direct it.

Marcellus: Nay, let's follow him."
(Hamlet Act 1, scene 4, 87-91)

http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/something-rotten-state-denmark
-----------------------------------

Cowboy, I found the following historical nugget in Volume 3 of Churchill's Memoires 1939-1945;

Nazi General Halder witnessed during the Neuremberg Tribunal;

Before the attack on Russia, the Fuhrer ordered a conference with all the commanders and those who were connected with the high-command. The issue, the coming offensive against Russia. I cannot recall the precise date(of the conference). In this meeting our Fuhrer stated that the methods to be used in the war against Russia should be different from the methods sofar used during the western campaign. He explained that the 'struggle' between Russia and Germany was foremost a Russian struggle. He said that, since the Russians did'nt join the The Hague Convention, Russian prisonors of war should'nt be threated according to the The Hague Convention rules. He also said that the communist-party commissioners should not be regarded as prisonors of war.

TAKE A WALK ON THE DARK SIDE, said the Furher!(my own words)

Aint that a coïncidence! Cheney, that sick evil SOB, gave Hitlers sick war-methods in Russia a curious, pathological and psychopath twist, (We may have to work on the dark side) just before the U.S. ravaged Irak in a 'socalled' war on terror.

It is also no coïncidence that the U.S. refused to aknowledge the International Criminal Court in (very cynic) The Hague. They, the Neo-Con Thugs, AIPAC and theyr puppet/president W.Bush planned and knew beforehand that they would commit high crimes, warcrimes, torture, genocide. They knew beforehand that they would commit multiple crimes and warcrimes against Humanity according to the Neuremberg principals and the Geneva Convention, and for that THEY SHOULD BE HANGED BY THE NECK!

They should also be HANGED BY THE NECK for crimes committed on 9/11.

I hope I translated (Dutch to English)the part from Churchill's Volume 3 good enought to make my point. If not please tell me.

Jacob.

Vierotchka said...

timking said... Pardon the misspell of Petraeus.

I believe the correct spelling is Betrayus.

Vierotchka said...

the conservative deflator said... Why was a video of Osama bin Laden found with Sheik al-Ghamdi bragging about "calculating the number of casualties of the enemies"?

That video has been proven to be a fraud - Bin Laden was very tall and thin, with a long and fine nose, and left-handed. The guy in the video with a Bin Laden-like beard is short, fat, squat, with a short and broad nose, and right-handed.

See for yourself here

Vierotchka said...

the conservative deflator said... Why is Mohammed Atta seen going through airport security in Portland Maine on the connecting flight that became American 77?

That is an undated and fuzzy video, and the person claimed to be Atta doesn't remotely look like Atta.

Vierotchka said...

the conservative deflator said... Why were four hijackers caught on tape boarding the plane that hit the Pentagon? Where did they go?

There is nothing that proves that these men were hijackers or that they were boarding that particular flight.


If the 4 planes weren't hijacked by the 19, whose voices do we hear on the cockpit flight recorders released by the FAA?

There is no evidence taht these released tapes actually came from the flight recorders of those planes, nor that these voices belong to the men we are told they belong to.


Why are there dozens of eyewitness accounts of an American Airlines jet hitting the Pentagon, if it wasn't an American airlines jet?

Dozens more saw a missile, a small private jet plane, a global-hawk.


Len, you tell me - what brought down the WTC towers? A nuke? Where is the fallout?

That's a feeble strawman. Who mentioned a nuke? Certainly not Len. Furthermore, Len is not trying to tell us what actually happened, he is demonstrating what did not happen. He is not offering an alternative theory, he is demonstrating that the official theory simply doesn't hold water.

Unknown said...

Vierotchka said...

I believe the correct spelling is Betrayus.

Good one!

video of Osama bin Laden ,,,"calculating the number of casualties of the enemies"?

That video has been proven to be a fraud - Bin Laden was very tall and thin, with a long and fine nose, and left-handed. The guy in the video with a Bin Laden-like beard is short, fat, squat, with a short and broad nose, and right-handed.


Yep! That was the squat dumpy Bin Laden with the wide nose and Santa Claus smile. Not the tall skinny Bin Laden with the narrow nose and the look of ever lasting longing for lost love in his eyes! The real Bin Laden was probably dead of kidney disease by the time the CIA got around to perping 911, so they had to hire a guy to play the part of Bin! The casting director did a LOUSY job!

hy is Mohammed Atta seen going through airport security in Portland Maine on the connecting flight that became American 77? That is an undated and fuzzy video, and the person claimed to be Atta doesn't remotely look like Atta.

Indeed! But, in any case, Bushies can't even produce an autopsy with Atta's name on it. There is, in fact, no convincing evidence whatsoever that Atta ever got on board a plane. Certainly, his name does not appear on any flight manifest or autopsy.

There is no evidence that these released tapes actually came from the flight recorders of those planes, nor that these voices belong to the men we are told they belong to.

Excellent point! Bushies may have outsmarted themselves. By covering their tracks so assiduously, they also failed to provide ANY hard evidence in support of ANY cockamamie cover story that they've managed to come up with. The burden of proof remains on Bush to prove any portion of the 'official conspiracy theory'. I doubt the existence of al-Qaeda, for example. As a 'terrorist organization' that was built up around Bin Laden, it is completely unconvincing. WE have ONLY the word of US Officials for it, and we now know what that 'word' is worth! NADA! it'S all BULLSHIT from an administration that has pissed away whatever credibility it might have add. Bushco does not get a pass!

Len is not trying to tell us what actually happened, he is demonstrating what did not happen. He is not offering an alternative theory, he is demonstrating that the official theory simply doesn't hold water.

When shills start trying to attribute a 'story' to me, that's when I know that they've lost. It is a symptom of frustration. It's also a symptom of the utter failure of the American educational system to teach critical thinking. The American populace seems no longer capable of withholding belief until a convincing case can be made. Americans seem trained to make up their minds immediately and upon the flimsiest of evidence if any evidence at all.