Thursday, August 21, 2008

NTSB Flight Data: Flight 77 Could Not Have Crashed into the Pentagon

by Len Hart, The Existentialist Cowboy

NTSB data indicates Flight 77 never dropped below 273 feet! The Pentagon is only 71 feet tall. Therefore, Flight 77 did not crash into the Pentagon. The plight of flight 77 is crucial to Bush's conspiracy theory. Without it, Bush's official conspiracy theory falls apart. 

According to black box data, Flight 77 could not have damaged the light poles. 77 was much too high (the poles are only 40 feet) and on the wrong trajectory. Dare we hope that this is the wooden stake driven into the heart of vile, evil, official lies about 911?

The official data --the official 'flight data' recorded from Flight 77 --was released by the NTSB in response to an FOIA request by Pilots for 911 Truth. This data is the digital record of everything that happened on that flight from take off. Additionally, altitude and position are confirmed by the beacon at nearby Reagan National Airport.
After expert review and cross check, Pilots for 9/11 Truth has concluded that the information in these NTSB documents does not support, and in some instances factually contradicts, the official government position that American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon on the morning of September 11, 2001 .According to the 9/11 Commission Report, which relied heavily upon the NTSB Flight Path Study, American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon at 9:37:46 AM on the morning of September 11, 2001 . However, the reported impact time according to the NTSB Flight Path Study is 09:37:45. Also according to reports, American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon and by doing so, struck down 5 light poles on Highway 27 in its path to the west wall.
The information provided by the NTSB does not support the 9/11 Commission Report of American Airlines Flight 77 impact with the Pentagon.

--OFFICIAL ACCOUNT OF 9/11 FLIGHT CONTRADICTED BY GOVERNMENT'S OWN DATA, Pilots for 911 Truth
The data proves that the US government is lying to us about 911. The data is consistent with those who suspect that 911 was engineered by a Bush cabal who continues to exploit 911 for geo-political reasons, the acquisition of foreign oil by conquest and the suppression of dissent.

All the documentation for this article as well as the video by Pilots for 911 truth is from the US government or official agencies of the US government, specifically the FBI and the NTSB.
The Flight data recorder is the FA2100 Solid State Flight Data Recorders, a product of L3 Communications.

The purpose of a flight data recorder is to record precisely what happens to a plane during the course of the flight. According to Calum Douglas, Pilots for 911 Truth requested and eventually received a 25 megabyte .fdr file in response to its FOIA request.

Some of the more interesting findings conflict with the 'official conspiracy theory', mass media accounts, and official statements by Bush, Rumsfeld et al.
  1. Last recorded altitude figure is 273 feet! The height of the Pentagon is 71. There is, in fact, no credible explanation of just how Flight 77 could possibly have crashed into the Pentagon. According to Pilots for 911truth.org: "After take-off Flight 77 never went below 273 ft". Their assertion is based entirely upon official data released to them by the NTSB.
  2. Flight 77 could not have knocked over or damaged light poles on either side of the motorway beside the Pentagon. Flight 77 data indicates that the flight was at the wrong angle of approach and much to high. The lowest altitude recorded by is 273 feet. The light poles are about 40 feet high. Flight 77s path varies by some 20 degrees a path that would caused pole damage before striking the Pentagon at the point at which it was, in fact, struck by something. According to flight data, Flight 77 was never 'anywhere near' any of the damaged poles at any time.
  3. Radar altitude data from NTSB confirms the recorded flight data that Flight 77 could not have knocked over the poles. It's another hole Bush's 'official conspiracy theory'.
Among the many inconsistencies that are made clear upon the analysis of the raw data, is the fact that Flight 77 could not have struck the poles, as we have been told. Two witnesses, uniformed employees of the Department of Defense [DOD] claimed to have seen Flight 77 as it approached the Pentagon. But the said witnesses could not have seen whatever it was that struck the poles. Whatever struck the poles would have been on a flight path behind the witnesses and would have been unseen by them.

The only plausible explanation is that whatever struck the Pentagon approached by way of the light poles and at an altitude that, in fact, allowed it to strike and damage the poles enroute. Whatever that was it was not Flight 77.  Flight 77 was higher at the time and on a different trajectory. A missile might have taken that route and would not have been seen by the above mentioned witnesses. Certainly, Flight 77 approached from another altitude, another angle --an angle that would have completely missed the poles at the lower altitude.

This is a critical point. A single aircraft could not have damaged both the poles AND the Pentagon from the trajectory that the flight data records for Flight 77. Flight 77 was, in fact, too high at 273 feet and would not have been glimpsed by DOD employees. The DOD witnesses, in fact, did not, could not have seen whatever it was that struck the poles.

The light poles, only about 40 feet high, are about 50 meters from the Pentagon. At this point the 'Reagan [airport] beacon' and the raw flight data confirm that Flight 77 altitude was never lower than 273 feet. The speed of Flight 77 at some 50 meters was over 500 mph. Even if Flight 77 had been on a trajectory to strike the poles, it would have flown over them. Flight 77 would have flown over the Pentagon on either trajectory.

Could Flight 77 have simply leveled off? Bluntly --no! Flight 77 had only a half second to two seconds in which to dive a couple of hundred feet and then level off thus accounting for both the light pole damage and the hit into the Pentagon. [Aerodynamics Simulation Software] Such a maneuver is outside manufacturers specifications, simply, impossible in that aircraft. Moreover, had that happened the 757 would not have been seen by the eyewitnesses who could ONLY have seen it on the other trajectory.


Calum Douglas presents his investigation into the flight data recorder from Flight 77 at the Indian YMCA in Fitzroy Square, London on 8th June 2007.


It is also 'outside the performance envelope' of one Hani Hanjour who 1) trained on a simulator and, in fact, had never set foot inside a 757; 2) was said by the Washington Post to have never board Flight 77 in the first place. The Washington Post said he didn't have a ticket! Nor was his name was not on the original flight manifest. Flight manifests are not official. They are simply a head count done by staff. It is doubtful that a flight manifest would be admissible in court. A coroner's report, however, is considered to be evidence.

Hani Hanjour is not listed among those who were autopsied.

In fact: NO  'Arabs' were autopsied because no Arabs ever got on board. According to the official, admissible autopsy report, NO Arabs were autopsied and no Arab names appear on the list of passengers who were autopsied. That is consistent with at least one media account, notably, the Washington Post which reported that Hani Hanjour was not on board because he did not have a ticket.

Then --how was he able to fly the plane? By remote control? Possibly! 

According to Pilots for 911truth.org, "it's physically impossible for the plane [flight 77] to have caused the damage to the building [Pentagon]". Flight 77 was never closer than 273 feet. It is time to reassess the famous blurry, inconclusive GIF animation of something 'scooting' across the Pentagon lawn at an altitude of about fifteen feet or even less --NOT 273 feet. This blurry GIF shows a craft that was level as it struck. 
 
Flight data indicates that Flight 77 was not only not level at that point it was much too high. It would have had to descend from 273 feet to about 15 feet and level within less than a second. Such a maneuver is outside manufacturers specifications, simply, impossible in that aircraft. It would be reasonable to expect that had any such maneuver been attempted, the aircraft would have broken apart before impact leaving most of some 100 tons strewn across the Pentagon lawn. In fact, the proponents of Bush's official conspiracy theory have failed to demonstrate that 100 tons of debris were recovered in any case.

Missing from the alleged Flight 77 crash site are items that one would expect to find at a crash site: airline seats, bodies, luggage, victims clothes, arab hijackers. The only wreckage that may be immediately identifiable a single rotor that is about one third the size of one of two rotors that would have been found in the wreckage of any crashed 757 wreckage. The explanation is simple if you ignored the unproven assumptions. The explanation is that it was NOT a 757 that crashed into the Pentagon. Unlike a 100 ton 757, a much, much smaller aircraft would not be expected to leave behind 100 tons of debris. A much smaller aircraft than a 757 might, in fact, leave the meager amount of debris (excluding throw-down debris) that was found on the lawn and in the Pentagon itself.

In every other case, crashed airliners are re-constructed! Not this time! Could it be that re-construction was opposed because it was known that by putting all the pieces together again, one would wind up with, perhaps, a Global Hawk or a cruise missile or some other 'weapon'' requiring only one rotor of about three feet or so diameter? Now --if you were a poohbah inside a criminal administration, such a 're-construction' would be downright embarassing and just might get you the death penalty for mass murder.

The rotor that was found is, in fact, the same size as the rotor of a Rolls-Royce engine that is found in the US Global Hawk! Anyone not burdened by official orthodoxy, lies and unproven assumptions need only look at the available evidence. That is, that single rotor could most certainly have been traced to a US Global Hawk --not to a 757 which, in fact, is equipped with two such rotors of diameters about three times that of the Global Hawk rotor. Besides --when NTSB data indicates that Flight 77 was never lower than some 273 feet, it is highly unlikely that it would have dropped but one of its two rotors down onto the Pentagon lawn!!

The Pentagon brass including Rumsfeld himself were safe on the opposite side of the building. Those killed were for the most part, auditors trying to locate some 2.3 trillion dollars gone missing inside the PENTAGON BLACK HOLE, in fact, a theft of some 2.3 trillion dollars from the people of the US who have paid their taxes in good faith! The American people have been betrayed, defrauded, screwed over and lied to --crimes aggravated by the loss of life at the Pentagon. The word for this is high treason, typically and historically a hanging offense! The question not if but WHO do we hang!
People are often murdered for much less than 2.3 trillion dollars. Some unfortunate souls have been done away with for a buck or two. Among the very evil, namely those calling themselves 'our' government, life is cheap at any price and well worth wasting in order to get rid of the onus of a missing 2.3 trillion dollars. The murder of US citizens by the US government will be remembered among the most heinous crimes ever perpetrated by any arch fiend in world history. Certainly --those who perpetrated this act of mass murder, this fraud, its continuing cover up should hang, publicly, so that it cannot be covered up|!

Every crime is defined by method, motive and opportunity. This article merely summarizes a method which can be re-created in some detail now and even more so when a complete investigation is begun. We have at least one very strong fiduciary motive. The US government is likewise in possession of an ideal weapon with which to murder our fellow citizens: the Global Hawk.

The opportunity was manufactured. What are the odds that Dick Cheney, as you may recall, just happened by chance to be 'gaming' a 'scenario' in which arab terrorists would crash airliners into the WTC and the Pentagon? Cheney may call it 'gaming' the 'scenario'. I call it 'supervising the mass murder of US citizens by its own government!'

Of related interest:
Four decades ago, the novel (and movie) "Seven Days in May" was a popular political thriller about a military coup d'etat in the United States against a President who sought to scale back the Cold War. In this story, a military cabal schemed to topple the government under the guise of a military communications exercise. This "war game" was to have been used as the cover for toppling the government and installing a General as President who would stop arms control treaties with the Soviet Union
A different fictional treatment of the use of a "war game" to perpetrate covert objectives was described in "The Lone Gunmen," a television show aired on Fox TV in March 2001. In that show, a small cabal within the military-industrial complex used a war game scenario as cover for remote control hijacking of a commercial flight and crashing it into the World Trade Center in order to boost military spending for the permanent war. This show was so close to the most likely scenario for 9/11 that it is plausible that this information was deliberately leaked in order to discredit the idea as merely part of a bad television drama, thereby inoculating people from contemplating the probability that 9/11 was a covert operation using remote controlled planes under the guise of a war game.
Lone Gunmen script excerpt 
BYERS: We know it's a war game scenario. That it has to do with airline counter-terrorism. Why is it important enough to kill for.
BYERS SNR: Because it's no longer a game.
BYERS: But if some terrorist group wants to act out this scenario, then why target you for assassination?
BYERS SNR: Depends on who your terrorists are.
BYERS: The men who conceived of it the first place. You're saying our government is planning to commit a terrorist act against a domestic airline?
BYERS SNR: There you go again. Blaming the entire government as usual. In fact, a small faction ...
BYERS: For what possible gain?
BYERS SNR: The Cold War's over, John. But with no clear enemy to stockpile against, the arms market's flat. But bring down a fully loaded 727 into the middle of New York City and you'll find a dozen tinpot dictators all over the world just clamoring to take responsibility, and begging to be smart-bombed. BYERS: I can't believe this. This is about increasing arms sales?
On September 11, at least five different "war games" were being conducted by the military and intelligence agencies. These exercises included simulations of 9/11 type events, a plane into building scenario near Dulles Airport in Virginia, and deployment of fighters to northern Canada and Alaska (which reduced the number of fighters that were available to protect the US?). It seems that these exercises were the means used to paralyze the air defenses, thereby ensuring the success of the "attacks." The British Navy was conducting exercises in the Indian ocean near the Middle East. A biowar exercise was also about to start in New York City.
Who has the power to coordinate all of these exercises? Osama bin Laden? Saddam Hussein? Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah? Dick Cheney and the White House National Security Council?
It is difficult to believe that it is a bizarre "coincidence" that the military and CIA were conducting war games similar to 9/11 on September 11, 2001. While it seems likely, if not blatantly obvious, that these war games were one of the means used to confuse the air defense system for sufficient time to allow the World Trade Center to be attacked, the war games do not answer the question of how the air defenses were suppressed for another half hour after the second tower was hit (at which time everyone knew that an attack was in progress). The Air Force had another half hour after the second tower to scramble interceptors to defend the Capitol (the plane that is alleged to have hit the Pentagon made its 180 degree turn over Ohio to head back toward DC about the time that the second tower was struck).
--9/11 War Games by the US military & CIA
Former Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta confirmed that Dick Cheney ordered a 'stand down' on 9/11, as Dick Cheney was 'gaming the scenario'.
“During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President…the plane is 50 miles out…the plane is 30 miles out….and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president “do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!?
--Former Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta, 911 Commission Hearing
[See: Minetta tells 9/11 Commission Cheney knew exact flight path of Flight 77]



Mineta Testifies to 911 Commission


Journalists covering the hearing verified Mineta's testimony after the hearing. The exchange raises the question: if Cheney were willing to allow what Mineta thought was a 'hijacked' aircraft to strike the Pentagon, would compunction would have prevented Cheney from ordering or agreeing to allow a US Global Hawk to accomplish the same thing with more certainty? At the very least, Dick Cheney is guilty of high treason. At worst --high treason and mass murder.

Any government employee at any level elected or civil service who supports, plans, participates in such a crime should be subject to charges of high treason, murder, accessory, seditious conspiracy, to say nothing of violations of this administration's 'own' US Patriot Act which makes it unlawful to disseminate false information about 'terrorism'. The act of ramming a missile into the US Pentagon is an act of terrorism whether that 'missile' (as Rumsfeld called it) is a Global Hawk or a 757.

Every member of the Bush administration who has lied about 911 in any way is therefore prosecutable as a 'terrorist' under the US Patriot Act! There is, in fact, a Federal Grand Jury that is investigating the many crimes of 911. I hope that the members of this panel are paying attention. I would hope that they are doing their patriotic duty to their country, to truth, and to justice! Let the charges be issued and the trial begin! Those planning and directing this heinous crime should stand trial for their very lives.

A related story:
... the government is hiding evidence regarding 9/11. For example, the government has claimed that no flight recorders were recovered from the airplanes which hit the Twin Towers. However, firefighters stated they did recover the flight recorders. And Dan Rather confirmed that they were recovered.
9/11 activists have repeatedly demanded that the government reveal the videos, photographs, and other documentary evidence so that we can assess the truth for ourselves (see this, for example).
Government Hides Behind Copyright Law
Not only has the government refused to share the evidence, it has threatened to dispose of it. For example, NIST recently responded to a FOIA request by saying that it would not share many videos and photographs but would - instead - give the originals back to the people who shot them.
The government's theory is - apparently - that the copyright for the video and photos is owned by the people who shot them, and that sharing them with others would constitute copyright violation. Specifically, copyright law states that the owner of the copyright can prevent others from duplicating or reproducing the copyrighted work. (Copyright is actually frequently used in an attempt to crush free speech and dissent, but that's another story).
The My Lai/Zapruder Exception
Is there any way around the government's copyright argument? Yes, there is a possible exception, which could be called the "My Lai/Zapruder Exception". As one court summarizes the principle:
Citing the exclusive photographs of the My Lai massacre during the Vietnam War and the Zapruder home movie of the assassination of President John Kennedy as examples, Nimmer proposes that "where the 'idea' of a work contributes almost nothing to the democratic dialogue, and it is only its expression which is meaningful," copyright protection of the expression should be limited in the interest of public access to information necessary to effective public dialogue. Id. at 1 - 82-1 - 84. Nimmer explains:
No amount of words describing the "idea" of the massacre could substitute for the public insight gained through the photographs. The photographic expression, not merely the idea, became essential if the public was to fully understand what occurred in that tragic episode. It would be intolerable if the public's comprehension of the full meaning of My Lai could be censored by the copyright owner of the photographs. . . .
Similarly, in the welter of conflicting versions of what happened that tragic day in Dallas, the Zapruder film gave the public authoritative answers that it desperately sought; answers that no other source could supply with equal credibility. Again, it was only the expression, not the idea alone, that could adequately serve the needs of an enlightened democratic dialogue.
Id. at 1 - 83-1 - 84.
Nimmer recognizes, however, that denying copyright protection to news pictures might defeat the ultimate First Amendment goal of greater public access to information by inhibiting or destroying the business of news photography. Id. at 1 - 84.1-1 - 85. The treatise therefore suggests a news photograph in which idea and expression are inseparable should be subject to a compulsory licensing scheme unless within a month of its making, the photograph appears in the newspapers, magazines or television news programs servicing a given area. Id. at 1 - 85. n5
Nimmer is the leading treatise on copyright law. So Nimmer's opinions carry great weight.
I would strongly recommend that all 9/11 truth activists and attorneys seeking documentary evidence cite the My Lai/Zapruder Exception, and demand that the government release all of the videos, photos, and other evidence related to 9/11.
--My Lai, Zapruder and 9/11
Following is an assorted collection of stupid officialdom followed by my responses.
"It's easy to imagine an infinite number of situations where the government might legitimately give out false information. It's an unfortunate reality that the issuance of incomplete information and even misinformation by government may sometimes be perceived as necessary to protect vital interests."
—US Solicitor-General Theodore "Ted Bundy" Olson, Jennifer K. Harbury vs. United States, US Supreme Court, 17 March 2002 (Olson's 3rd wife Barbara, an ex-federal prosecutor and CNN pundit, was allegedly murdered on the invisible American Airlines Flight 77 that did NOT crash into the Pentagon). Mrs. Harbury argued her case pro se (without a lawyer) to the US Supreme Court regarding the US CIA torturing and murdering her husband in Central America during Iran-Contra narcoterrorism perped by White House and US government, which the government did not deny. (Iran-Contra treason resulted in dozens of criminal convictions and assassinations of White House staff during the Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations.)
Olson also gave about three or four conflicting and otherwise differing versions of this wife's 'alleged' telephone calls from Flight 77. These calls were most probably impossible.
"There is no question, there is no doubt what happened that day. And I think it's appalling that anyone might try to put out that kind of myth. I think it's also appalling for anyone to continue to give those sorts of people any kind of publicity."
--Department of Defense News Briefing, Pentagon spokesperson Victoria Clarke (now employed by CNN "NEWS"), June 25, 2002
I think it's appalling that government sellouts are now paid liars on CNN! There is 'no doubt' that the government lied about 911 and continues to lie about 911. Yet --the 'sheeple' are expected to believe absurd cover stories for which there is NOT A SHRED of verifiable or even admissible evidence in support. Who lies about a crime to cover it up? Those who perpetrate them do!

The US government has lied continuously and is still lying about 911!

This government must come clean or resign en masse!
"To even suggest that AA77 did not crash into the Pentagon on September 11 is the ultimate insult to the memory of the 59 men, women and children on AA77 and the 125 dedicated military and civilian workers in the Pentagon who were ruthlessly murdered by terrorists on September 11."
--—FBI statement, April 2, 2002
I am not only unimpressed with phony indignation by paid liars inside the FBI, I will work assiduously to see to it that they join ranks of the unemployed!

Note to FBI shills: spare me your disingenuous indignation and phony bullshit patriotism! Rather, help me round up the mass murderers inside a treasonous government that has most certainly waged war upon the citizenry. Those planning and calling the shots should be shot, possibly hanged!
"I think even the suggestion of it is ludicrous. And finally, it is just an incredible, incredible insult to the friends and the relatives and the family members of the almost 200 people that got killed here on September 11th and the thousands who were killed in New York."
—Department of Defense News Briefing, Victoria Clarke, April 24, 2002
The ONLY insult is the US government's insistence upon maintaining this stupid, transparent charade! Victoria, just shut the fuck up or show me the wreckage or both!
There was a time when Americans coud take for granted that their government told the truth. The very idea that the government would lie to us was virtually unthinkable during the 1940s and the 1950s. During the 1960s, however, things began to change. Lies and deceit over Vietnam, Watergate and the Iran-Contra Affair disillusioned most of us to the point where we could no longer trust our government. While distrusting government used to be a symptom of paranoia (of the left or the right), that no longer remains the case. During the 1990s, anyone who takes for granted what the government tells them is regard as naive. Our problems thus become that of exercising our rationality to avoid naivete without becoming parnoid.
There are many who think that the steady erosion of our faith in our government has roots that can be traced to events in Dallas, TX, on 22 November 1963. ... Knowing the truth might even contribute to restoring our trust in government. And, if the government was involved, then knowing might at least help us to take steps to ensure that it does not happen again.
--Prologue, The Death of JFK, James H. Fetzer, PhD.
I wish I could be as optimistic. While the origins of our malaise may be found in the murder of JFK and the government cover up of the crime, it was left to the Bush administration to dash all hope of redemption. It was left to the Bush administration to make it clear that there is no way out of this wilderness short of revolution. The government may never be trusted again whomever calls him/herself "President". The government may never again deserve our trust! The government may never again deserve the good will of those it presumes to governs.


Mike Gravel calls for a REAL investigation of 911

29 comments:

LanceThruster said...

I have written "Mythbusters" and other skeptic sites to ask them to try and duplicate in any fashion the scenarios of WTC 1 & 2, WTC 7, or Flight 77 and the Pentagon. In the past they've used scale models, equivalent setups to demonstrate the particular physics or chemistry involved, and other applications of scientific method to try to confirm or debunk various myths and urban legends. History Channel does countless shows on alien encounters, bigfoot, ghosts and other paranormal claims, based on widespread interest in these topics, yet chooses to pretty much ignore those areas where they could dig deeper into the official narrative of what happened on 9/11.

It is clear to me that the main reason is that they know what they would find (or wouldn't) and what they'd actually be able to prove (or wouldn't). Controversy sells, yet no one seems to want to touch this except with more whitewash of the crimes committed.

Anonymous said...

Why would they?

Guess who funds their paychecks? Just look at the list of the names of producers and executive producers in the entertainment industry.

Do you think the Mythbuster guys don't know this? They'd not dare ruin a good role when they see it. Get paid to do nothing and goof around.

Same goes for Discovery or whoever. You won't find stuff like this anywhere on TV...because we all know who owns it.

Look how they shut down George Galloway...a very vocal person against Israel/US politics.

There's no question 9/11 was an inside job. No question. The issue is what's going to be done with it?

When most of the world lives in fear, and the rest have their mouths sealed, and you also have to deal with the criminals who'll ruin your life, where do you expect this to go?

Nowhere...for a very long time. Welcome to the world of post JFK.

Len Hart said...

LanceThruster said...

Controversy sells, yet no one seems to want to touch this except with more whitewash of the crimes committed.

The 'channels' you mentioned are more than happy to propagate all kinds of bullshit without caring about whether any of it is true or not! It gets them high ratings and no one in the 'establishment' is threatened by 'BIGFOOT' one way or the other.

911 is different! The truth about 911 should and just might bring about the COLLAPSE not just of the Bush government but the very institutions that Bush hijacked.

The truth about 911 will be desperately covered up and opposed more vehemently that were the critics of the bogus Warren Commission bullshit. When the truth about 911 is, at last, known it will rock this nation to its foundations. And that is a GOOD thing!

Len Hart said...

Anonymous sez...

When most of the world lives in fear, and the rest have their mouths sealed, and you also have to deal with the criminals who'll ruin your life, where do you expect this to go?

Nowhere...for a very long time. Welcome to the world of post JFK.


I must have been a unruly brat. I knew at the time that JFK had been murdered by our own 'government'.

I've already outlived several of the liars on the Warren "Official Lies" Commission. If no one else will do it, I might just embark upon the true history of the JFK murder myself. We have the great work of Mark Lane, Jim Garrison and, yes, Oliver Stone to build upon!

A native Texan, I know well JFKs route through downtown Dallas. Right now, I could walk to the very spot where JFK received the fatal shot from the front, frames 312, 313 Zapruder. It was a custom .222 fired from the front, just as the 'trigger man' said it was. It had been bitten just as the 'trigger man' had described several years earlier.

The 'magic bullet' is a red herring and completely irrelevant. It was not the fatal shot! And because it was not the fatal shot, it doesn't really matter what route it did or did not take.

Secondly, the bullet that was found on the gurney at Parkland and later represented as being the 'magic bullet' was found 1) on the WRONG gurney and 2) it had not even been fired! Planting that bullet had been assigned to Jack Ruby. Naturally, he screwed it up! What a dip wad! He couldn't even do that right!

Not having been fired it could not possibly have done the 'magical' things that the Warren Commission ascribed to it.

Arlen Specter, you piece of shit, you robbed a generation of the truth!

The Warren Commission was a load of bullshit by incompetents on the one hand and liars on the other.

As for Gerald Posner --'jet effect' my ass!

LanceThruster said...

Too true regarding the MSM outlets. I still think that physics labs, civil engineering depts, or other related disciplines would be willing and able to do some demonstrations (regardless of outcome).

Remember years back they flew a remote controlled jumbo jet loaded with a new anti-misting ingredient for jet fuel into a field of stakes and cables? It was a spectacular failure as the approach was not quite level so that the conditions for misting were not what they should have been.

Someone could do a pay-per-view or a prize competition where participants would try to recreate in either full scale or on a smaller scale an aircraft disappearing into a reinforced concrete structure with the sheared wings following the craft into the hole and no sizeable debris remaining. It would be interesting to see how the real world conditions would have to be fudged to make this happen. The same goes for the WTC towers collapse.

I looked up what our own civil engineering department had written about the collapses and it appeared to be a whitewash as well. Academia is part of the problem just as much as the MSM.

Len Hart said...

LanceThruster said...

Someone could do a pay-per-view or a prize competition where participants would try to recreate in either full scale or on a smaller scale an aircraft disappearing into a reinforced concrete structure with the sheared wings following the craft into the hole and no sizeable debris remaining. It would be interesting to see how the real world conditions would have to be fudged to make this happen. The same goes for the WTC towers collapse.

Among the most egregious examples of intellectual dishonesty has been Perdue. They put together an animated version of the 'official theory'! But because it's Perdue and because it's 'animated' that makes it so! My response is that it's just an animated fairy tale, like Disney's Fantasia or Sleeping Beauty. Walt built an empire upon the back of an animated mouse! But that does NOT meant that Mickey is real!

LanceThruster said...

Yeah Len, the "simulations" have been pretty pathetic. Obviously Purdue profited from the deception too. I chalk it up to the conditions Chomsky wrote about in "The Fate of an Honest Intellectual" where he noted that scholars telling inconvenient truths do not advance.

timking said...

This is the best article yet for me, Len. The Calum Douglas presentation is probably the most profound thing I've seen so far regarding exposing 911. Then again I'm still playing catch up, and the more I look the more information there is.

I've even, to be fair at researching, been reading some of the 'debunking' sites but I'm not sure how many more of them I can take honestly. In the comments for your last article, the 'deflator' posted a link to some websites. And while keeping in mind that this is reporting and sometimes folks just like to make things sound snazzy, a lot of it reads like a bad suspense novel!

A quote from an article discussing an account from a witness named Alan Wallace:

"Runnnnn!" he yelled to a pal. There was no time to look back, barely time to scramble. He made it about 30 feet, heard a terrible roar, felt the heat, and dove underneath a van, skinning his stomach as he slid along the blacktop, sailing under it as though he were riding a luge. The van protected him against burning metal that was flying around. A few seconds later he was sliding back out to check on his friend and then race back to the firetruck. He jumped in, threw it into gear, but the accelerator was dead. The entire back of the truck was destroyed, the cab on fire. He grabbed the radio headset and called the main station at Fort Myer to report the unimaginable.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A38407-2001Sep15

Len Hart said...

LanceThruster said...

Yeah Len, the "simulations" have been pretty pathetic. Obviously Purdue profited from the deception too. I chalk it up to the conditions Chomsky wrote about in "The Fate of an Honest Intellectual" where he noted that scholars telling inconvenient truths do not advance.

Chomsky is right about that. Sad! Perhaps we should all create our own university and get other phony cronies to accredit us!I know some really good 3D artists and, if I say so myself, I can edit film and video like a Hollywood pro. I am quite sure that we could animate Martians planting the seeds of a new WTC. It would just grow up out of the ground like weeds. We could also accomplish what sixties hippies failed to do: we could LEVITATE the Pentagon. And ==because 'we' are a University and are able to visualize and animate it, that makes it so.

timking said...

The Calum Douglas presentation is probably the most profound thing I've seen so far regarding exposing 911.

I agree! It shoots down the whole scenario. If Flight 77 was a fraud, the whole rotten edifice comes crashing down. But --because the American educational systems sucks big ones and the media has, likewise, failed to report facts, 99 percent or more of the populace will not even GRASP the significance of what the Pilots for 911 truth have done.

A quote from an article discussing an account from a witness named Alan Wallace:

And which Bruce Willis movie is that a scene from??? : )

Alas, the educational system has failed us. A million pages of purple prose will not change a single law of physics which is summed up in a single line:

Matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed!

And because that sentence cannot be refuted, everything Bushco has said about 911 is a bald-faced lie. (except, perhaps, the fact that they got out of bed that morning)

Greg Bacon said...

"It is difficult to believe that it is a bizarre "coincidence" that the military and CIA were conducting war games similar to 9/11 on September 11, 2001.."

Keep in mind that those war games had been practiced in years past, but always in October.
In 2001, they were moved ahead to September.

With the NIST report on WTC 7 released, here's some food for thought.

By their own report, they've blown away the reason WTC 1 & 2 fell with this line: ".., that the heat generated from any fuel-fed fires would not have been enough to cause the collapse."

Yet heat from the WTC 1 & 2 fires was enough to collapse both buildings?

And what about the fire-proofing that would have covered those beams in WTC 7?

The fire-proofing was supposedly blown off by the impact of the jets into WTC 1 & 2, but no jet impacted those buildings, so what became of the fire-proofing in WTC 7?

This report is full of so many holes, it defies belief.

Anyone who's done any interior firefighting can tell you that the fire temps inside the building widely differ.

Yet they expect us to believe that the fire in WTC 7 was uniform enough to cause a pancake style collapse that looked more like a controlled explosion?

They've got so many lies out there, it's getting difficult for them to keep covering up reality.

Len Hart said...

Greg Bacon said...

By their own report, they've blown away the reason WTC 1 & 2 fell with this line: ".., that the heat generated from any fuel-fed fires would not have been enough to cause the collapse."

Thanks for pointing that out, Greg! Of course, we should not be surprised that neither MSM nor officialdom of any sort has made a point of correcting that 'popular' myth from which both have benefited.

Americans still fear to ask what are the probable causes when fires are properly ruled out.

It would appear that 'controlled demolition' tops and completes the list. As Conan Doyle put it: "when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth!" What remains is: CONTROLLED DEMOLITION!

... so what became of the fire-proofing in WTC 7?

'Fire-proofing' is another red herring! Steel won't melt at those temperatures anyway. As you point out, no jets struck WTC 7 --so what is the point? WTC 7 was probably a part of the package deal that Bush, his bro, the Pentagon Brass, Rummie, Rice et al made to Silverstein. It was a Faustian bargain. He gets a BIG insurance pay-off and the GOP gets a dictatorship and as many oil wars as are profitable. Like all great plans, this one is terribly flawed. Silverstein shot his mouth off and gave the game away. Like a bridge too far, Iraq was a war too far. Bushies failed to connect Saddam with Bin Laden and his bad ass band of forty (?) thieves.

Yet they expect us to believe that the fire in WTC 7 was uniform enough to cause a pancake style collapse that looked more like a controlled explosion?

Indeed! WTC is what it is! Thanks to Occam and his reliable razor, WTC 7 is light work. It looks like a controlled demolition because it IS a controlled demolition. Anything else is just bullshit, lies, impossibilities to paper over a theory that only brainwashed Americans could buy into. The experience jusitifies tripling every state's education budget. It is no coincidence that Bush left behind (in Texas) the nation's very WORST education system. Texas beat out Mississippi for DEAD LAST in education. We should not be surprised if Texas kiddies grow up believing that kerosene melts steel, and that soft aluminum will cut hardened steel if you just hit it hard enough.

They've got so many lies out there, it's getting difficult for them to keep covering up reality.

Lies are like flies. They breed faster than you can swat them!

tiago said...

Len;
You open a can of worms when you speak of Jack Ruby.
It was my understanding that Jack Ruby was a used car salesman with cancer and a short time to live. I never understood why he was in the Police/Court building when he murdered Lee Harvey Oswald.
One version of who assassinated Kennedy was that it was some one posing as ‘burlap’ Billy.

tiago

tiago said...

Len;
You open a can of worms when you speak of Jack Ruby.
It was my understanding that Jack Ruby was a used car salesman with cancer and a short time to live. I never understood why he was in the Police/Court building when he murdered Lee Harvey Oswald.
One version of who assassinated Kennedy was that it was some one posing as ‘burlap’ Billy.

tiago

Len Hart said...

tiago said...

It was my understanding that Jack Ruby was a used car salesman with cancer and a short time to live. I never understood why he was in the Police/Court building when he murdered Lee Harvey Oswald.
One version of who assassinated Kennedy was that it was some one posing as ‘burlap’ Billy.


I can't claim to be an expert on Ruby. I do recall his death in jail. I seem to recall that his death was greeted with suspicion in the media even at the time. That leads me to believe that Ruby was not diagnosed with cancer until after he was incarcerated. It is also impossible to believe that he would have been treated adequately if at all. He would have been left to die. It's hard to imagine a cell in Texas (especially) providing a prisoner with chemotherapy. If he got anything resembling adequate treatment, I will be shocked!

I once read an almost hour by hour chronology of Ruby's activities over about a week (or less) just prior and leading up to the murder of JFK. Ruby was a very busy man those days and it is very hard to believe he maintained that kind of a schedule regularly throughout his life.

Very briefly, I am inclined to believe that the JFK murder was a CIA/MOB hit. The mob was the muscle and the CIA was in league with cuban exiles still pissed off because JFK refused air support at the Bay of Pigs. I think it was George Bush Sr, a CIA operative at the time, who was the liason between the exiles and the mob. There is a now famous photo of Bush Sr just hangin' around the front door of the Texas School Book depository building, apparently, just waiting for the shooting to start.

I think Ruby co-ordinated the local mobsters. Bush Sr was probably 'control' for the infamous 'tramps' --E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, and another guy whose name I can't recall offhand.

The fatal shot came from the grassy knoll. The casing, by the way, was found. It had been bitten just as the 'mob' trigger man said he had left it. The only other bullet of any significance is the so-called 'magic bullet'. Much time has been wasted by 'officialist liars' creating animations to make lies look credible. In fact, it's time wasted. 1) the 'magic bullet' did not kill anyone; 2) the bullet that the Warren Commission said WAS the 'magic bullet' had never even been fire. Give me a staff and a budget and I will fill up a court room with EXPERTS who will testify --under oath --to that effect.

That narrows the case down considerably. Now --it's a matter of ONE shot from ONE location hitting ONE man (JFK) in the head from the front and slightly to JFKs right i.,e the grasssy knoll.

Zapruder himself said that he heard a shot fired from behind his right shoulder. That was the the shot from which exited a .222 which struck JFK in the right forehead and exited the back of his head. It was, to be expected, a HUGE exit wound and the liars on the Warren Commission tried to cover it up.

The professor is correct: it was the JFK murder that either changed everything forever or perhaps it only raised the public awareness of just how rotten and illegitimate our government had already become.

I also don't think it insignificant that the decline of America is inversely proportional to the rise to power and influence of the Bush crime family, a family that must be described accurately as EVIL NAZI SEED!

It must also be recalled that Richard Nixon is clearly heard referring to the 'Cuban' affair on the Watergate tapes.

The cast of characters is interesting: Richard Nixon, (who 'lost' to JFK), the watergate burglars, Bush Sr (hangin' around outside the School Book Depository, Ruby, the mob, and 'the trigger man' who killed JFK with a single shot from a custom modified .222.

Greg Bacon said...

Shades of 1963 Dallas and the JFK murder.

NIST is now saying that ONE beam in WTC 7 collapsed and brought down the whole structure.

Just like that one magic bullet that hit Kennedy, then took a sharp turn and hit Texas Governor Connely.

BS.

Buildings like WTC 7 have redundancy built in, so that type of collapse the NIST is pushing doesn't happen.

I don't know if you're familiar with Kevin Ryan, the UL guy who was fired for questioning the offical 9/11 story, but his web page is below and here's is what i wrote him regarding his presentation that pokes numerous holes thru the "offical" 9/11 story:

Mr. Ryan:

I saw your excellent presentation about the inherent falsehoods in the "official" 9/11 story on a program on either LINK TV or FSTV.

I want to thank you for your courage to bring forward evident truths that the authorities have been suppressing since 9/11.

One thing about your slideshow or Powerpoint presentation stuck out and that was the one slide that showed the test setup by NIST where they had a mockup of a typical underfloor in one of the WTC buildings that they then turned on super heated flames to see the result.

What stuck out was that they had constructed the model entirely wrong. In the past, I've worked on commercial construction projects that were multi-story. Granted, not anywhere near as tall as WTC 1 or 2, but floor by floor, the construction is similar.

What stuck out was that they had laid the corrugated sheet metal parallel to the steel cross beams. The corrugated sheet metal is laid on top of the steel beams to support the weight of the concrete that is poured to form the next floor, which means the sheet metal has to laid perpendicular to the beams, not parallel.

Laying the sheet metal parallel is not done, nowhere, since by laying the corrugated sheet metal parallel to the beams means that the sheet metal has no strength, as the joints between each sheet will not be supported.

Those corrugated sheets are always laid perpendicular to the steel beams, so they'll be supported every few feet, that way, they'll hold the concrete and the workers aren't in danger of slipping thru the joints.

So why did the NIST lay the sheets incorrectly? Stupidity or was it done deliberately so the flames would impact an already defective floor?

Do they have pictures of the model before the flames were turned on? If they do, and if they poured the approximate weight of the concrete on top of the sheet metal, my guess is that the floor was already buckling BEFORE the test.

Just go inside any big box store that has an exposed ceiling, like a Wal Mart or Home Depot and see for yourself.


http://www.journalof911studies.com/

How fucking stupid does the Bush/Cheney Junta think we are?

Don't answer that!

Anonymous said...

The only reason that some people continue to defend the government's official version of what happened on 9/11 is because they cannot handle any other explanation.

Literally, they cannot handle it. They cannot conceive of the fact that the government would lie to them, would engage in cover-ups, would commit murder and black ops, would trash liberties and the lives of its citizens for more power and more wealth, and would act no differently from the other tyrants and dictators found throughout the rest of the world.

This illusion has to be maintained in their fragile minds as the absolute unwavering truth, now and forever. Because if they were to start questioning a single piece of the con job...then the whole edifice would threaten to collapse, and they would have nothing to replace it with.

Len Hart said...

As regulars who post here know, I am moderating comments for this article.

Following are some excerpts that illustrate just why I am doing so.

It boils down to this: I have better things to do with my time than to WADE through the UTTER SHIT posted here by defenders of Bush's official conspiracy theory.

Following are excepts. The comments in 'italics' followed by my impatience with what can best be described as the utter failure of the American public school system, deliberate idiocy, or genetic deficiencies for which there is no hope. The author of the 'italicized' comments is the shill who calls himself "Conservative Deflator":

I just can't make your leap of logic that says the black box says the last altitude was too high to have hit the Pentagon, therefore American 77 didn't hit the Pentagon. Weak.

That is NOT a 'leap of logic'. It is rather RAW DATA. It is NOT a conclusion, it is a simply data that proves beyond ANY reasonable doubt that FLIGHT 77 did NOT crash into the Pentagon. And if Flight 77 did NOT crash into the Pentagon, Bush is in DEEP SHIT!

So, you believe they recovered the black box (from where?) but that it didn't crash?

That is explained completely in the video!

At this point, I was still being polite. This I get this

If they have the black box, where is the rest of the plane?

YOU FUCKIN MORON!!!

Absence of evidence is NOT evidence! A missing plane DESTROYS Bush's case --not mine!

If Bush's OFFICIAL CONSPIRACY THEORY cannot account for the whereabouts of an entire 757, then that is a BIG HOLE in the official conspiracy!

HOLES in Bush's theory are NOT my problem and it is NOT my job to plug 'em up for Bush. That's his problem!

Also, an autopsy report (which neither you or I have seen) didn't contain Hani Hanjour's name, so the alleged 9-11 hijackers didn't actually do it? Again, weak logic. Even weaker evidence.

I repeat: YOU FUCKIN' MORON! Absence of evidence is NOT evidence! It is NOT evidence in support of Bush. It finishes Bush off completely! Please explain that to your bosses back at Bush headquarter!

You're telling me that Bush can produce neither an autopsy NOR a 757 which he claims crashed and somehow YOU thinks that helps HIS case??? Rather --the FACT that Bush can produce neither an autopsy or a plane in his support FINISHES him off completely. It means that Bush HAS ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT HIS ABSURD AND OUTLAND CONSPIRACY THEORY! NONE!

Sadly, some folk are just too stupid to figure that out!

If Bush cannot produce the name of a single HIJACKER whom we are expected to believe died in the crash of a PLANE that BUSH can't even FIND --that's a fatal flaw in Bush's stupid theory!!!!!!

Now because I have better time than to try to explain that to morons and idiots, this kind of shit will be deleted!

Note to "deflater":

You're outta here!

Go waste someone else's time!

I write for people who have more than two working brain cells!

I write for folk who have more than a nodding acquaintance with the concept of 'burden of proof".

Get a life and get the fuck lost!

damien said...

When all else fails invent new science! So it goes with NIST and their new account of the failure of WTC7. Apparently the collapse was due to a "new phenomenon" of science known as thermal expansion. And so it goes...more crap for the media and the masses. Hey, the world really is flat!

And Greg Bacon, the north tower of the WTC had experienced a previous fire. On February 11, 1975 there was a blaze that burnt out most of the eleventh floor over three hours. The firefighters reported it as very intense - much hotter than the fire on 9/11 - but it still didn’t take down the building. Go figure. And, according to the 9/11 Commission reporting on the evidence from experienced, senior fire officials: "none of the [fire] chiefs present believed that a total collapse of either tower was possible."

The truth campaign rolls on!

Len Hart said...

damien said...

When all else fails invent new science! So it goes with NIST and their new account of the failure of WTC7. Apparently the collapse was due to a "new phenomenon" of science known as thermal expansion. And so it goes...more crap for the media and the masses. Hey, the world really is flat!

Thanks, Damien! You hit the nail squarely on the head. I believe the medical 'industry' have pioneered this technique which has proven very effective in the sale of various drugs which had no use whatsoever until someone invented a disease that they could dubiously claim could be treated with the new drug.

What a great racket! Invent a disease -- sell a drug!

Now, a completely new physical phenomenon has been invented and named! Therefore, it must be so!

And Greg Bacon, the north tower of the WTC had experienced a previous fire. On February 11, 1975 there was a blaze that burnt out most of the eleventh floor over three hours.

Then it must have fallen and was rebuilt before the news got out! A new method of 're-creating' fallen buildings was invented for this case and this case alone.

See how easily one can think like a republican if one really tries!

damien said...

Len, you know this stuff but some of your readers might not. The evidence discrepancies from Flight 77 are echoed in the absurdities of Flight 93. This from Pilots for 911 Truth:

1. The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support observations.

2. All Altitude data on the northern approach contradicts witnesses published by the New York Times.

3. Witness observations of approach path contradict northern approach as described by Popular Mechanics and the US Govt. Several witnesses observed the aircraft approaching from southeast over Indian Lake and from the south prior to witnessing explosion. Parts found in New Baltimore, 8 miles southeast of crater is a direct contradiction to the northern approach claimed by the US Govt.

4. Environmental Protection Agency reports no soil contamination of jet fuel after testing 5,000-6,000 yards of earth including 3 ground wells. Smoke plume photographed by a witness does not suggest a jet fuel rich explosion.

5. Impact angle according to Flight Data Recorder does not support an almost vertical impact as the govt story and crater suggests.


That's right, the flight data recorder has the plane impacting upside down at 40 degrees to the horizontal. You could google all day and never find an image showing where the huge tail hit the ground! You will only ever see vertical impact photos. The only photo shows a smoke plume more consistent with a smaller ordinance explosion. There are no heavy kerosine fumes filling the sky. According to FDR data there was 17.01 tons (5,500 gals) of fuel left at time of impact. Yet the EPA found no ground contamination from jet fuel. Unbelievable!

"We (were) literally surrounded by debris, and there's a very strong odor of scorched earth," witness Jim Parsons reported. "It doesn't smell like jet fuel, it smells like ... How do you describe it? Burned earth. It smells like burned earth." - Pittsburgh Channel (09/11/01)

The impact hole is 75' wide and the aircraft is 125' feet wide. (See also here)

The volume of debris is too small. The only photos released by the authorities showing small debris. Multiple witnesses at the Shanksville site reported on the lack of debris. The FBI claims that it recovers 95 percent of the plane and sent it on to United Airlines. That would be about 60 tons of plane debris. I defy anyone to produce evidence that 60 tons of plane debris was taken from Shankesville or forwarded to UA. Lies!

Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller reported that they had found "unspecified human remains and enough minuscule pieces of plane debris to fill one-third of a dumpster." That's right, 1/3 of a dumpster! This dumpster!

The "recovered" remains, allegedly from Fl93, are anomalous and are suggestive of evidence tampering. -- A terrorist passport found in the streets of New York that "survived" the WTC attacks and a Koran and materials recovered from Mohammed Atta's car all apear to be staged evidence, as does the unmarked red bandana and terrorist driver's licence recovered at Shanksville. When 200 airline seats are totally destroyed you don't expect to find unmarked red bandanas and bibles!

The human remains (600 lbs) does not campare with the passenger weights (4 tons). Modern, high temperature crematoria take 2 hours to burn bodies yet we are expected to believe that 4 tons of human remains disappeared ("vaporised") in an instant leaving only 150- 600lbs of tissue shreds. The temperatures were simply not high enough to dispose of that volume of human remains in such a small time frame. If the bodies burned above ground they would have left a recognizable offensive smell (burnt tissue like at a BBQ) that would have been noticed just like at other aircraft crash sites. Carbon based objects such as humans, luggage and seating require oxygen to burn. If they were burned above ground they would have produced larger amounts of smoke than was seen. Had they passed into the ground they would not have burned because there was no oxygen; they might have been shredded, but not consumed by fire. So if the seats burned above ground then 200 seat frames would be there somehwhere. They're not. Instead, we have this.

Officially, the largest piece found of Fl 93 was a seven-foot-long piece of the fuselage skin, including four windows. Given that the wings are 125' wide with a 40' high tail then that's a load of baloney right there!

There is no verifiable evidence chain of custody on the debris, human remains or FDR.

The FBI refused to allow either the FAA or NTSB carry out investigations required of them by law and which they had undertaken as standard procedure for ALL previous aircraft crashes occuring in the US over many decades. The FBI did NOT carry out any forensic evaluation of the crash nor permit anyone else to do so. That's a profoundly unprofessional course of action given that one caller from Fl 93 late in the flight said a bomb had possibly blown up in the plane.

Neither the NTSB or the FAA handled the evidence, only the FBI. Isn’t that their job? -- yes it is, but they have no legal authority to prohibit, hinder or obstruct legally mandated inquiries by the FAA and the NTSB that should have taken place. They were forbidden from doing so. The FBI also had clear obligations in regard to the handling of evidence which they failed to fulfill. The usual investigative procedures in regard to flight crashes and the handling of evidence were not followed in regard to 911.

Whatever happened at Shanksville, the official 911 account is baloney! In Aug 2006 a Russian plane, almost identical in size to Fl93, crashed in Siberia. They recovered 140 bodies and huge amounts a debris. But nothing like that at Shankesville.

Excuse the length, Len, but it may assist your general readers to get a grip on the scientific nonsense that is the official story. More here. Cheers.

timking said...

Thanks for the information Greg and Damien. A couple of observations from your comments.

1) That is indeed a pretty empty dumpster. I don't have exact references at the moment, but I recall seeing cases on television where they would attempt to basically reassemble a crashed plane under some kind of large awning or even maybe inside a building. Was that ever attempted and photographed with wreckage from the plane that hit the ground on 911 or even the plane that hit the Pentagon?

2) Doing some quick research on wikipedia:
760 to 1150 °C (1400 to 2100 °F) is the temperature bodies are cremated at. And although I don't see a specific time limit for it, even after the bodies are cremated, they have to pulverize the leftover bones and such. Seems like human bodies are pretty resilient once you get past the squishy parts. And regarding the cremation temperature, they're claiming that in the cases of the towers that material inside the building caused the fires to burn hotter than the normal temperature jet fuel would burn at, but what increased the temperature at an outside ground crash site enough to vaporize everything that way? Did it crash into a pile of office furniture or something?

3) Totally agree with Greg about the way they laid the sheet metal over the beams. If they were laid parallel you'd get weak seams just exactly as described. Same in wood construction, you don't lay even sheets of plywood parallel to cross beams.

Thanks for the information again guys, and keep it up please.

opit said...

You.ve quite a lot going on here, Len, so I don't know if you realize that - literally for years - 'trolls' have disrupted popular discussions online, baiting the moderator, insulting participants, posing false comparisons, using flawed logic, setting up straw men and other logical fallacies - and on and on. It's bad enough that within the last year slick-looking websites have appeared which must be paid bloggers writing the same sort of drivel which dominates 'Mainstream Media."
Even the Russian newspapers are doing it.

Len Hart said...

opit said...

You.ve quite a lot going on here, Len, so I don't know if you realize that - literally for years - 'trolls' have disrupted popular discussions online, baiting the moderator, insulting participants, posing false comparisons, using flawed logic, setting up straw men and other logical fallacies - and on and on

I was a nice guy for too long. TROLLS get their sorry asses deleted. I've learned that they actually get paid for this shit! So --as far as I'm concerned that is NOT protected 'free speech'.

Moreover, the many holes in Bush's official conspiracy is enough right now to constitute probable cause to indict his sorry lyin' ass for mass murder. Let the trolls bite on that!

But Bush is subject to the death penalty even without 911. He is could be convicted right now with verifiable evidence that's in the public record for violations of US Codes, Title 18. All we need is ONE courageous federal grand jury.

And you can bet that any grand jury indicting Bush will be targeted by paid thugs.

The US government is NO LONGER LEGITIMATE! It was taken over by a gang of paid thugs who represent only about one percent of the nation and the Military/Industrial complex.

Ordinary citizens are completely with legitimate representation.

Albert said...

Hello guys,

Belgium calling....
I follow all those events from the first day so to speak.
It's amazing all the proofs and evidences who shows the lies of your Governement or at last from some accountables peoples in.
It's also amazing for me to see ..nothing happend really .. than some small demonstrations and a bubch of meeting repeating "Ad nauseam" the thrut ...
As I'm aged .. my hope is thrut will see the light before I go inmy coffin ... or this will be one of my big regrets when I will be called on a maybe better place.
Well .. keep up the lag of liberty and freedom .. I think the real american need it forsay the last.

Cheers.

LanceThruster said...

Hi Len,

Not sure where this should actually go but Discovery Channel seems to be pushing the JFK official narrative because the other night I saw part of a two-hour special where they did tests to recreate the ballistic evidence and supposedly were able to fire rounds from the type Italian carbine that Oswald used and not have them become deformed. They really played it up with comments about how surprised they were that rounds could be fired through representative ballistic gel and hit rib and forearm "bone" simulation material and come out in pristine form just like the "magic bullet."

To me, the timing also seems suspect as a way to diffuse 9/11 truth by saying, "See? Even when you think something is impossible it turns out to actually be totally plausible."

Len Hart said...

LanceThruster said...

Not sure where this should actually go but Discovery Channel seems to be pushing the JFK official narrative because the other night I saw part of a two-hour special where they did tests to recreate the ballistic evidence and supposedly were able to fire rounds from the type Italian carbine that Oswald used and not have them become deformed.

Thanks, Lance! About that I say:

What a crock o'shit! 1) there is, in fact, no hard evidence that Oswald even got off a shot! 2) It is mere supposition that Oswald even touched a rifle of any sort.

There is, in fact, only one shot that is material to the crime of murder. And THAT shot was fired from the grassy knoll. There is at least evidence [Zapruder] in support of that statement. There is absolutely NO hard evidnece to support the supposition that Oswald even fired any shot at all.

As for the so-called 'Magic Bulllet', numerous THEORIES and ex post facto 'paper overs' have been put forward in support of a crock o'shit theory that a single bullet did a ballet dance enroute from JFK to JC. Irrelevant! JFK died from the single shot that was fired from the front. Therefore, the 'magic bullet' could be ignored by a jury charged with deciding one issue and one issue only: WHICH bullet killed JFK!

Not that it would matter to such a jury ---but the 'magic bullet' is depicted on the JFK lancer.

It was NEVER fired! And I would bet money on that!

Liars will always find creative ways to perpetrate a myth!

Len Hart said...

By the way, the magic bullet was planted on the gurney from which it was 'recovered' at Parkland!

It was 'planted' by Jack Ruby and, being an idiot, he put it on the WRONG gurney.

That raises the question: how did the cops KNOW that it was SUPPPOSED to have been material to JFK and not some other poor schmuck on whose gurney it was planted?????

Again --the simple explanation is the right one: DA Henry Wade was a crook and a liar! May he R.I.P, That's a helluva lot more than he ever wished other folk while he was still alive and lying.

Asass said...

9/11 Directed Energy Weapon / TV-Fakery Suppression Timeline

http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=151&Itemid=60

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